Like I alluded to above, the little plunger that presses the primer into place can be adjusted with a simple disassembly and a bit of sanding/filing. As I recall, there's a C clip that holds it together. Remove that C clip and it comes apart. Sand the bottom of the case a bit at a time until it's seating your primers as deep as you want.
Presses -'Short Term Gain. Long Term Pain'
- Thread starter cds43016
- Start date
Thank you for your suggestion. I was aware of this mod. I've been researching this issue for a while. Sometimes it has worked and sometimes not. I'm glad it worked for you. It's worth a try. Just like the placing a coin (denomination of your choice) or anything else from pieces of hacksaw blades to spent primers under the seater, drilling holes where the dimple is and tapping in a screw, replacing the sub or shell plate, placing shims on the drive hub, using different primer brands – the list goes on. But your suggestion is the next less intrusive after a coin.
I got nothing to lose.
See post #8 above. After all the drama related thereafter, I rest my case. For those of us that are not OCD, then KISS. If you need to load a thousand rounds per month, then go for it and deal with the issues. If you want to shoot a few hundred, load all operations on a turret, be done, and go shooting.
Geronimo Jim
Member
I just got through loading 5,000 rounds of 38 special on my
15 year old Dillon 650. Only problem was 6 or 7 times, a case
did not feed due to tumbling media in brass. Two seconds
to fix. Amazing. A long, long time ago, when I tried to go fast,
seemed to have a lot more problems. Now take my time and
it just goes perfect. Also have a 550 what works great. Can't say
enough good things about Dillon. Everyone gets advice, only
the wise profit from it.
15 year old Dillon 650. Only problem was 6 or 7 times, a case
did not feed due to tumbling media in brass. Two seconds
to fix. Amazing. A long, long time ago, when I tried to go fast,
seemed to have a lot more problems. Now take my time and
it just goes perfect. Also have a 550 what works great. Can't say
enough good things about Dillon. Everyone gets advice, only
the wise profit from it.
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My LCT setup is like yours. I use auto index and a case kicker from Inline Fabrication. I also use the Factory Crimp Die. Our major difference, as stated above, is I can't do a good visual check with the 357 Mag. I need a powder check die. This requires a separate step to size and prime the case. This is not an issue with the 9mm. The powder charge can be seen easily.
The only gripe I have with the LCT is priming. Too many primers end up on the floor. Aggravating enough, but nothing compared to crawling on the floor trying to find them. It's not a good idea to leave mini landmines lying unaccounted for on the floor. Hopefully, the improved Safety Prime Bracket will help. I think the LCT is a great press and would easily satisfy the needs of most reloaders.
I shoot between 700 to 900 rounds per month. I haven't documented my rate lately, but with the extra step, I'm spending at least 8 hours a month reloading. That's far too much time. Not too much better than single stage. 9mm can be much faster on the LCT since the extra step is removed.
I'm a very careful reloader. I check, double check and check again. I don't sacrifice safety for speed. But I'm sure I can significantly increase my 357 Mag load rates on the LNL without compromising safety. If I can just get it to work!
9mm is very quick to reload on the LNL. Speed will even improve as I build confidence
and develop a smoother cadence. Indeed, safety has already improved. I have a double powder check. I like that.
Jeff423
US Veteran
I had a first generation LNL. Fought it for 3 wks. Returned it and bought a 650. Even with the restocking fee it was worth it.
fredj338
Member
The biggest issue with any turret is you are still pulling the handle as much as with a ss press. So the other thing to consider with any good progressive, you are doing a lot less work. Go fast go slow but you are doing a lot less handle pulling & hand movements. 500rds on a turret, 1500-2000 handle pulls. On a progressive 504-505. Over the years, it adds up, especially as we get older. If I only loaded 100rds a week, I would want to do it on a good progressive.
Fred I have to agree about pulling that handle..but a turret does save many hand motions.. removing the case putting another on ad infinitum. Turrets do save time and motion. Especially the LCT with it's automatic advancement. I use a Redding T-7 for many rifle rounds and it saves very little time or movement. But I only load a couple hundred at a time. 223 and 308 I do on a 650. The only rifle rounds I load on them. And 308 is getting loaded once more and then I am done loading for it. I have a couple thousand cases and that will last me a long time. Handgun rounds I do on 650s or 1050s. I was doing 44 sp and 45 Colt on a LCT. But no longer. I am doing them on a 550. More hand movement than a 650 but I don't load more than 500 of them at a time. and the 550 cost me a$125.. might as well use it.
Twoboxer
Member
The shims can solve two sets of problems when they are both connected to the "stacking tolerances" that may be present in any given press. But they are not necessary to fix the "powder popping" problem, and may at times not fix it at all.
The "springy" ball bearings in the shell plate protrude from the shell plate more than is necessary. As the shell plate nears its final index position, the "springy" ball bearings are driven into the subplate's detents . . . jerking the shell plate forward . . . followed by the sudden stop that pops powder.
The ball bearing assemblies are adjustable. Use a punch and tap them further into the shellplate . . . until the shell plate gently (and almost silently) settles into position at the end of an index cycle. If you tap them in too far, turn the plate over, tap them back out, and try again.
I'll join in here I guess and vote for the Dillon 550 for progressive. But you need a single stage too, and the Rockchucker is hard to beat for that.
I saw a YouTube posting on this. It is a good suggestion for spillage. Thank you.
This approach was debated in the link I included. In some cases, it can work in other's not. It seems to depend of the distance between the sub and shell plate. The closer they are the better chance of success. That's the opinion at least of the thread's poster.
It's a long somewhat technical thread but interesting. Many issues with the lnl ap are addressed there.
I've been focusing on getting the 9mm to work and it has. I'm left with my 357 Mag light strike problem. I'll return to the 9mm spillage problem later. It's just a nuisance. My finger on the shell plate as it indexes down works for now.
The main challenge is to get the primers to seat deeper for the 357 Mag. The frustrating part is that there are many solutions posted for every problem. Unfortunately, a workable solution for one person, doesn't always work for others. Fixing one problem may even cause another problem elsewhere. For instance, I read of several cases where attempts to adjust primer seating depth caused problems with primer feeding or press jams. Nothing is easy with this press.
I think the best way to approach the problem of primer seating is to try solutions in order of least difficulty. I tried or will try:
- Coin under seater (didn't work)
- Try another primer seater
- Modify seater as described by dr. mordo
- Different primers
- Shims
- Prime off the press for 357 Mag. 9mm is OK.
This can be an involved process. It would be worth a premium in press price if problems like this and others were addressed at the factory.
I appreciate the comments and suggestions of all posters. Hopefully, the comments and experiences expressed in this thread will help someone else make a more informed decision regardless of the color of the press they eventually buy.
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Remember life is about enjoying the journey. You ain't enjoying life with that Hornady press. Take a loss and buy a Dillon and enjoy! I have 550s and 650s and never have had major problems with any of them . Minor adjustment and cleaning and that is infrequent. I think I will walk out to my garage and load a couple hundred 44s for stress relief not stress addition!
Twoboxer
Member
I participated (very briefly) in that thread. That's where I learned about the ball bearings. Bought the shims too, but never needed to install them.
As always, when multiple issues receive brief replies from lots of people, folks tend to lose track of what "that works" or "that does not work" refers to.
In all honesty, there really isn't any way adjusting the ball bearings properly can fail to solve the powder popping problem. They need to be long enough to ensure the shell plate is precisely positioned, but not so deep that the ball bearings do the job that the pawls are supposed to do.
HOWEVER, that fix will not solve any of the other "stacking tolerances" issues discussed in that thread.
Conversely, properly shim the press as discussed in that thread and you can still get powder popping . . . until you adjust the ball bearings.
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DRAINSMITH
Member
The first thing I want you to do is to take your punch off the press than with a piece of deprimed brass put the punch into the primer hole and see how much tolerance you have. Now put the punch back on the press and then place a small ball of play-doe under the shell plate and set the primer. Next mic the play-doe and check to see if the primer is flush. If it is flush act like you are placing another primer into the next piece of brass without a piece of brassin that next station. If the play-doe is flatter you do not have your press timed, and the punch is hitting the edge of the brass causing it to be flush.
hdwhit
Member
Yes, it can.
At various times over the last 4+ decades, I have approached the same decision points as you describe in Post #1.
At each decision point, I chose to remain with a single stage press. No, I don't produce the volume of ammunition that a progressive press can yield, but I spare myself the litany of problems that plague progressive presses designed to meet a mass-market price-point.
hdwhit
Member
Ah!
That's your problem.
You see, you have it all backwards. If what you want to do is shoot, buy commercial ammunition.
On the other hand, if you want to reload, then focus on reloading. I shoot to support my reloading habit.
fredj338
Member
Most of the guess work has been taken out if one ignores cost. 90% of the serious competition shooters reloading use a Dillon. Why, because they work & set the industry std for a progressive press. The other presses range from krap to exc & that is when you want to get a lot of opinions from people that have used them all or near all. This will help you avoid spending twice trying to save money.
Most of us reload to shoot, so want it to be as painless as possible. Cost is very secondary to someone shooting 10K + rounds of centerfire a year.
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hdwhit
Member
But who is ignoring cost?
How do I amortize the cost of a Dillon (what you advocate) over the cost of a further 11,000 across my expected lifetime?
You make assumptions that are not based on reality without first asking why my age, life expectancy or future firearms utilization might be.
As such, you pontificate about ignorance based on ignorance.
But, as previously indicated, I am not a "serious competition shooter", so the rest of your argument is mere sophistry.
As I clearly indicated in post #36, if I were interested in shooting commercial quantities of ammunition, I would own a progressive press, but that is not what I am attempting to achieve as a handloader.
So, if you consider my post - rather than your "Blue Kool Aid" response - what would your suggest as a practical alternative?
Once again the Dillon lovefest is here and I am no 'Daisy'. I have been reloading since the late 60's. I have two Dillons. A 450 upgraded to a 550B at no charge by Dillon and a 550B I got just after They came out. Bought one of the new 550's at a gun show that had all the bells and whistles. Auto index, powder check, auto prime, ETC. Oh by the way You can get a Dillon with powder check and only 4 stations. Traded the new Dillon for a new 3 screw Ruger 41 mag. Still have My old CH inline progressive, but now retired. I use a RCBS Rock Chucker for most rifle and an old #2 for the big stuff. Bought a Hornaday LNL when they first came out and sold it in two months to a club member for $100 which I put toward a 550.
