s&w model 39

M39

I realize that some posts are not,valid or believable,however maybe negative or derrogatory posts should be withheld untill all facts are on the table,as my original post stated we are looking for a possible value,, if none can be given we can live with that,The letter is located in a file that hasnt been located yet.should we be this close to pulling the trigger on negativity before facts i for one think not.
 
Well the font and the placement of the 25 look about right. Here is an early Model 39, 4 digits and a Pre 39. The S/N placement shows to be very similar. Without an experts explanation or factory letter it's not possible to do anything but speculate. It is a later model in that the safety lever is larger as is the tang. Which means it was not made as a pre model # it's design is more recent than the the model 39 I am showing which shipped Jan 1959. See Forward serrations.







Pre Model 39


 
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M39

Great pics, yes very very close, thanks for those pics, this does have the long extractor.
 
Very interesting gun,
Several features IMO place it several years into model production such as the long tang, long safety lever / relieved grip panel, fwd slide serrations, frame slot cut for ejection port cover and of course the Model 39 marking so not an early pre commercial production gun.

Definately worth a factory letter to find out why the serial is so low...(maybe some military contract or special order?)

I once heard a story that S&W used to keep non serial numbered frames in stock to be used as replacement frames that were then serial numbered the same as a returned gun with broken frame in order to go directly back to the owner....Supposedly at some point the ATF advised this was not allowed and that those frames needed to be serial numbered or be destroyed, could be this began life as a replacement frame.
Could also be a special order that someone was willing to pay for that serial number, or could be a special run for some grey govt contract.

Only way to know for sure is with a factory letter.
 
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M39

Yes i have the pistol, it is as shown, another difference i noticed is a friends bbl is marked 9mm this one is marked 9mm cartridge.
 
Brad, you forgot one little nuance. Any firearms or supplies that entered service into a covert operation were completely void of any markings at all.

You may have tongue in cheek but just in case...

This is a common belief but I've searched for years to find any shred of documentary evidence for such a practice to no avail. I've interviewed Special Forces personnel and they deny having unmarked small arms. Roy Jinks has flatly denied that S&W would agree to such a practice. Documented covert missions, e.g. Gary Powers flight in the U-2, involved a High Standard silenced pistol with all the usual markings. In fact all of the HDMS pistols known have complete markings including U.S. PROPERTY. The so called "Hush Puppy" pistols based on Model 39-2 platforms have markings. Colt PHA pistols used by the OSS and CIA have markings. At best, Special Forces have been known to use Walthers, Browning HPs and AKs that were not marked "U.S." but primarily because they wanted those calibers or platforms for other reasons.

I would welcome any hard evidence that covert operators have ever used "sterile" weaponry, i.e. no markings. I'm still open to the possibility but the usual "proof" is along the lines of "my sister's second cousin's 3rd husband was a secret squirrel and swore that he used an unmarked S&W with bullets filled with disappearing ink."
 
My first impression (never trusting digital images) I thought "Photoshop". In the early days of Digital photographs the Court Systems would not accept them at all. Then, after the technology was undeniably the way of the future, the expert witness submitting the digital images had to sign an affidavit "under the penalty of law" that his digital images had not been altered nor enhanced. Photoshop aside, giving this some serious evaluation on the OP's word of honor that it is NOT a Photoshop-ed image, here goes:

From the placement of the number and spacing it seems there should be 3 numbers prior to the "25", as if it had been numbered xxx25. Compared to other serial number, the justification to the far right doesn't correspond with placement of 4 digit serial numbers but more to a 5 digit serial number.

Model 39s went from 4 digit SN, to 5 digit SNs to a final 6 digit SN up to approximately the 110000 range (Rule of thumb). I will agree the 25 and MODEL 39 look nice but that is a much later frame, very long duck tail. Long extractor, serrations etc.

Whatever this is or is not, it is interesting ... but ... it is NOT the missing link or lore, myth and legend that we've been looking for.

I am also trying to get a perspective of the thickness of the side of the frame to the front of the slide where it drops off. It seems this side of the frame may be "thinner", perhaps milled and re-stamped, or, perhaps it is NOT milled and restamped. Or this could be the product of "the Great Pretender".

The finish of the alloy frame is basically a baked on "paint". There is much that can be hidden underneath that "paint" that you cannot see unless the paint is stripped. When a classic car owner came for a full body restoration I would make a conditional estimate of the refinish, to be reviewed again, AFTER the entire car was stripped when I can see the metal beneath.

If this letters out as a genuine Serial Number 25, I would be shocked. And, if it does letter as Serial Number 25 the ship date has to be mid to late 1960s by the production changes noticed. Even if a special order serial number (if S&W did such) the numbers are entirely misplaced. It would be expected that the 25 would be centered over the MODEL 39 such as is in the 4 and 5 digit serial numbers. Much later into the later 6 digit MODEL 39s when transitioning to the 39-2s, sometimes are justified to the far right last number of the serial number in line with the 9 of the MODEL 39 stamp.

No matter which, at very minimum, it is interesting.
 
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Brad, you forgot one little nuance. Any firearms or supplies that entered service into a covert operation were completely void of any markings at all.

In NYC that's called a "throwaway" or a "plant" gun when all manufacturer's identifying marks are removed.
 
the pistol is completely bone stock,with the exception of the troopers name engraved on the left front frame rail,...... the family believes it to be a piece presented to him as a retirement gift.


Special order; Presented on Retirement

Trooper's name and "years of service"??? "badge number"???? "Unit number"??

Looks like Foxy and I were typing the same thoughts.....
 
It could very well be his badge number,but 25 is pretty low,,he passed in 2016, and was a senior firearms instructor for the NYSP for years, my thoughts, he paid the price for it to be custom numbered or a replacement frame.
 
Im not referring to marks being removed, I mean they never had any at all to begin with. The guns you refer to were cheap 32 cal that could be gotten from Pool Hall Johnny or Vito down on the corner.
 
"G. Slingerland" name engraved ? I tried searching Slingerland, then with, Gary, George, Greg. All you guys, have at it. There's an answer somewhere, I think. Slingerland, brand drums and other musical instruments is one.

It is likely a modified M39 by some lesser known gunsmith but seems odd as altering a serial number of a firearm is illegal. However, what year was it that serial numbers became mandatory. Prior to some certain year (was it 1968), serial numbers were not mandatory. Someone up on those gun laws, please jump in here.

Look at 2nd enlargement ... there's a latent, misplaced " 7 " in the upper left.
 

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M39

I have looked again at the serial number are im not sure i see the 7 you are referring to, i can mic the frame rails for an exact measurment, ill try a better picture of the numbers.
 
Have to be honest, I dont see the 7. But is the 5 just oh so slightly higher? I have never read how the Sns were applied? Not free hand. Were they roll stamped on a wheel or stamps held in a vise somehow? I really dont know. Im hoping the gun is correct with a replacement frame or maybe a factory Fri. afternoon part. Just chime in. The mystery may be solved by a Jinks Letter.
 
It sure is an odd duck, with a low number but later engineering features. I'm going to call it real because I don't believe the frame could have been refinished to that appearance.
 
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