You may hate this one, but I love it!

Tony M.

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It's a .22 ladybug.
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"What is 22 ladybug?" you might ask. Essentially it's a CF wildcat cartridge designed to replicate the .22 LR in a reloadable format. For the curious, the name came from my wife when I was explaining that small wildcats were often named after bugs. She thought ladybug was appropriate because they're both "cute" and kill garden pests efficiently.

Right now I'm pushing cast lead 37 grain bullets at about 900 FPS from the 6" barrel.

This is my third gun in the caliber, (the others are rifles) and I'll be happy to explain it in some detail if anyone cares.

The gun started life as a well used Law enforcement trade-in model 15-4. It's been around the block a bit, and I've used it for silly things before. Since this one had no collector value in the first place I didn't feel bad about doing more stuff to it.

The barrel came from a model 48, and the cylinder is a NOS unit from a 617. I would have preferred a blued steel cylinder, but the SS model was less than half the cost of finding a used blued cylinder.

Rather than cut or replace the frame lug on the 15 with a proper RF frame lug, (call me lazy) I cut a small ring from the rear face of the cylinder to match the recoil plate and match the frame lug. The cylinder was reamed .224 through to provide a good throat size for the cast bullets I'm using, and then the cylinder was chambered (.250" diameter .635" deep). I didn't need to mess with the rim cut on the cylinder, s it was already sufficient for the rim on the ladybug.

The ratchet and hand were adjusted to give good carry up and lock, and with the hammer down and trigger back, there is zero measurable play. The flash gap is set at .004".

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I haven't yet spent a lot of time wringing out accuracy, but it’s running around 1.5” at 25 yards with the first loads, and a poor rest, so I’m hopeful that I’ll be able to get it down to the magic 1” at 25 yard range that I’m looking for.

So far It works well, I caught this little bugger climbing out of a hole he or his compatriots had chewed in my siding, nailed him when I had the clear shot.

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I intend to carry the gun with me when walking the property to deal with the rampant tree rats. It's quiet enough to shoot without ears a little bit (though not something I'd want to do lots of) and seems to be very effective on the vermin.
 
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Well, how clever are you! Congratulations, I do believe you're onto something here. Good luck! Like to see some groups once you get the loads worked out. Now, how about chambering one in .25 acp? :cool:
 
Well, how clever are you! Congratulations, I do believe you're onto something here. Good luck! Like to see some groups once you get the loads worked out. Now, how about chambering one in .25 acp? :cool:

The hardest thing about that conversion would be getting a decent barrel. I suppose you could line a standard barrel with a liner, but otherwise it would be getting it rebored and re-rifled... A little tough with my equipment... :)

Very neat little cartridge. And reloadable too! What’s not to like?

Thanks! I'm having a ball with it!

That's cute. Where do you get the brass and which reloading dies do you use?

I'm making my own brass, It's a little involved, but essentially I swage down .25ACP brass to .247" and then trim the base and rim to fit. I made my own dies for forming and reloading, but I'm hoping there will be some commercial dies available in the future, along with a commercial brass source.
 
Innovations in calibers, guns, wildcatting cartridges/loads, etc. in firearms never cease to amaze me. I am not a re-loader or experimenter—99% of my shooting is .44 special, 30.06 and 12 gauge—so I am as plain vanilla as they come. But I LOVE reading the old reloading manuals and articles about all the wildcats and exotic cartridges.

I think firearms may just naturally attract thinkers, tinkerers, arm-chair (and formally educated) engineers/ballisticsians.
 
I like the idea of using .25 brass. There used to be a .22 cf reloadable handgun cartridge that went obsolete about 50 years ago. I'm happy to see a redux. I probably have all the parts to put one together. I know I have spare .22lr and .22wmr cylinders in the drawer plus a few barrels. I've got a few scrap K frames to build on, too. Keep us posted!
 
I also think this whole idea is AMAZING and I am definitely intrigued for sure! .25 ACP brass isn't the easiest stuff to come by either, but at least you don't lose any either.

What powder, Bullseye? Charge weight could be under a grain?!
 
I read about this conversion and the process of making the brass.
I was thinking didn't a company Cooper, maybe spelled wrong
sell a 22magnum with centerfield priming back in 80s. I haven't
herd anything about them for awhile, but I know they sold some.
I saw a rifle but not the ammo. I wonder who made the brass for
them? I think this is a good idea because the 22 handgun might
be the most useful of all. There are a lot of things from target to
small game hunting that doesn't require anything bigger. The ability to handload a 22 has more benifit than just replacing 22rf
during scares. You will be able to develope loads for individual
guns just as CF. You are always hearing that a 38sp will do the
same thing better. Now that may be true with a k32 but a 38 is
a little much for a lot of these uses. More lead and powder to do
the same job. You would think with all the new cartridges that
come out and flop one of the companies would come out with a
similar cf 22. S&W and Ruger could do it very easily using 22mg
models. Just change firing pin to CF and bore cylinders for cartridge. I believe the market is there. Handguns and rifles both.
This is different than a super magnum, short magnum or just a
cartridge that duplicates one already on the market. These have
a limited market, but a 22cf would interest a lot more shooters.
 
Innovations in calibers, guns, wildcatting cartridges/loads, etc. in firearms never cease to amaze me. I am not a re-loader or experimenter—99% of my shooting is .44 special, 30.06 and 12 gauge—so I am as plain vanilla as they come. But I LOVE reading the old reloading manuals and articles about all the wildcats and exotic cartridges.

I think firearms may just naturally attract thinkers, tinkerers, arm-chair (and formally educated) engineers/ballisticsians.
I do think you're right about tinkering, I think that's one of the reasons I enjoy guns so much.

I like the idea of using .25 brass. There used to be a .22 cf reloadable handgun cartridge that went obsolete about 50 years ago. I'm happy to see a redux. I probably have all the parts to put one together. I know I have spare .22lr and .22wmr cylinders in the drawer plus a few barrels. I've got a few scrap K frames to build on, too. Keep us posted!

I'll be happy to share any info you'd like. Just let me know.

The rifles have been fairly accurate in the caliber. Testing today at 50 yards showed all 8 groups between .314 CTC and .729CTC with an averge of .451 CTC.

8targets.JPG
 
I also think this whole idea is AMAZING and I am definitely intrigued for sure! .25 ACP brass isn't the easiest stuff to come by either, but at least you don't lose any either.

What powder, Bullseye? Charge weight could be under a grain?!

Ha, yeah, 25 ACP isn't the easiest, but It is at least available. And I bought like 15K once fired cases a few years ago for scrap prices...

Right now my favorite load is 1.1 grains of titegroup under a 37 grain lead bullet.

I read about this conversion and the process of making the brass.
I was thinking didn't a company Cooper, maybe spelled wrong
sell a 22magnum with centerfield priming back in 80s. I haven't
herd anything about them for awhile, but I know they sold some.
I saw a rifle but not the ammo. I wonder who made the brass for
them? I think this is a good idea because the 22 handgun might
be the most useful of all. There are a lot of things from target to
small game hunting that doesn't require anything bigger. The ability to handload a 22 has more benifit than just replacing 22rf
during scares. You will be able to develope loads for individual
guns just as CF. You are always hearing that a 38sp will do the
same thing better. Now that may be true with a k32 but a 38 is
a little much for a lot of these uses. More lead and powder to do
the same job. You would think with all the new cartridges that
come out and flop one of the companies would come out with a
similar cf 22. S&W and Ruger could do it very easily using 22mg
models. Just change firing pin to CF and bore cylinders for cartridge. I believe the market is there. Handguns and rifles both.
This is different than a super magnum, short magnum or just a
cartridge that duplicates one already on the market. These have
a limited market, but a 22cf would interest a lot more shooters.

Yes, the 22 CCM was a quick flop, and it's such a shame, it was a really cool concept. I've got some brass and dies, but no gun for them... Sadly

Fiochi made some of their brass, and there was some lathe turned brass as well, sadly they used the wrong alloy of brass, and the CCM was so hot loaded that it often split the brass on the first firing.

Reminds one of the .221 Askins.

While I didn't start out to make a copy of the .221 Askins, the result ended up being shockingly similar.
 
There were cf 22 cals in the past. Stevens has several target
cartridges in 22 and 25 for sure. I have never owned one but
have seen the rifles and cartridges. Some of them looked like
pencils. They were from late 1800 to early 1900s, so probably
BP loaded. The moral of this is that the casings can be made
commercially, with today's tech machinery probably easier than
back in the day.
 
Tony M, IMHO THERE IS ABSOLUTEY NOTHING TO HATE, AND EVERYTHING TO LOVE ABOUT YOUR WILDCAT ROUND, AND THE REVOLVER THAT SHOOTS IT ! ! !

THERE IS VERY LITTLE LEFT TO SAY, GIVEN THE PRAISE THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN HEAPED ON YOU. YOUR VISION, INGENUITY, AND QUALITY OF EXECUTION ARE NOTHING SHORT OF PHENOMENAL......

WHILE I AM IN AWE OF YOUR ACHIEVEMENT, I AM NOT A RELOADER. I AM A SHOOTER. THAT BEING SAID, THE PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING.
YOUR TARGETS REVEAL A GREAT POTENTIAL FOR ACCURACY. FURTHER TWEAKING AND TESTING OF LOADS SHOULD SHRINK THOSE ALREADY SMALL GROUPS......

MEANWHILE, THAT 4 LEGGED, FURRY INTRUDER COULD NOT BE ANYMORE DEAD ! ! !
 
That is just the berries! I’m happy to see it! :)

I wanted something reloadable that duplicated .22 WRFM. The .22 Long Snapper was suggested and Hamilton Bowen made one for me on a Model 60-4. I need to drag it out and shoot it some more. I’ve sort of lost track of what I was doing with it.

Thanks again for your interesting post. :cool:
 
Thanks guys! you've all been very kind!

Nice work.

What kind of rifles are you using your new wildcat in?

Right now I've got a Contender chambered for the cartridge (super simple conversion... chamber the barrel and flip the switch on the hammer) and an old Hopkins and Allen falling block.
 
That is just the berries! I’m happy to see it! :)

I wanted something reloadable that duplicated .22 WRFM. The .22 Long Snapper was suggested and Hamilton Bowen made one for me on a Model 60-4. I need to drag it out and shoot it some more. I’ve sort of lost track of what I was doing with it.

Thanks again for your interesting post. :cool:

The long snapper is a pretty neat round for sure! If I can find another cylinder or two, I'd like to chamber one for the long snapper... I'd love to see your revolver, Bowen does such nice work!

Ah, the good old days.
.221 Askins, .22 JGR, .22 Kay-Chuk, .22 Snapper Short and Long, probably others. There was a .25 on a Hornet case, shortened to fit the cylinder, too.

Indeed, I had a Kay-Chuck for a while, and never fell in love with it the way I wanted to. I think if I hadn't been trying to push it so hard, I would have liked it better, but it was a bit of a fire breathing monster, and not a ton of fun to shoot for me.

I'm already enjoying the ladybug so much! I think the fact that I'm not trying to hot-rod anything is part of the fun for me.
 
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