Do they carry loaded or unloaded?
First M17 Pistols at Tomb of the Unknown Soldier
- Thread starter DWalt
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My late brother was a U S Navy Ceremonial Guard from 1963 to 1965. Every weapon he carried was loaded, with one in the chamber.
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It’s a ceremonial or dress holster, so relax everyone 
. Probably the one to three star general in the chain of command approved it and thought it looked spiffy.
. Probably the one to three star general in the chain of command approved it and thought it looked spiffy.
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To those saying we shouldn’t have German designed weapons in our military, well we were at war with Italians during WW2 and yet the M9 is our main sidearm. Also, Germans have fought and died in Iraq and Afghanistan right alongside US forces in our war against terrorism.
As a current active duty military member, currently deployed at a NATO base in Southwest Asia, I say to you: Get over it. Germany is not the Germany of 75 years ago, and they are one of our closest and most capable partners as we fight extremists to keep people safe all over the world. I will be proud to accept the M17 pistol when my unit finally gets them, whenever that may be.
As a current active duty military member, currently deployed at a NATO base in Southwest Asia, I say to you: Get over it. Germany is not the Germany of 75 years ago, and they are one of our closest and most capable partners as we fight extremists to keep people safe all over the world. I will be proud to accept the M17 pistol when my unit finally gets them, whenever that may be.
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Sorry pal, we should be thinking about what the people in those graves would be thinking about this issue. Their world WAS the world of 75 years ago.
OP
DWalt
Member
Many might not be aware that the M17 has a new companion 9mm round - a 147 grain JHP (XM1153) made by Winchester which I understand is much like the old Black Talon, in addition to a new 115 grain FMJ bullet version (XM1152). Of course the M17 will handle the old M885 9mm round also.
What is the intended use for the XM1153 round?
Loyaljeeper
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You are correct.
GF
Member
Well, they shoulda' went with a Hi-Point in an Uncle Mikes holster.
Oh wait... looks like they did.
GF
Oh wait... looks like they did.
GF
chiefdave
US Veteran
Had a senior moment and thought M1917, what a nice throwback. The M17 looks like it should be in the waistband of a pimp in a New Orleans cathouse.
sigp220.45
US Veteran
I like it. Thanks for posting.
Cardboard_killer
Member
Well, first there are four Unknowns, one from WW1 (100 years ago), two from WW2 (75 years ago), and one from the Vietnam War (45 years ago). Should each guard have a S&W 1917, a 1911, or an M9 (or a S&W Combat Masterpiece).
And how would we know what they wanted? Maybe one liked pimped out nickel plated mother of pearl Colt 1903s, while another liked the Remington branded 1911. Shoot, maybe one of them was a stretcher barer conscientious objector who didn't believe in violence.
You've misunderstood what I said.
I don't care whether we procure a foreign designed weapon or not. I'd have been thrilled to carry an H&K G3 or an FN FAL rather than an M16. I'd have also been happy to carry a FN Hi Power rather than a 1911 (although I absolutely hated the M9, and it had nothing to do with being an Italian design).
I also have nothing at all against the Sig P320 - it's a big improvement over the *** M9.
What I am opposed to is Sig Sauer giving us some gussied up M17s for the honor guards of the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, and our government allowing it to happen with apparently little or no regard to the symbolism involved.
You may have noticed the honor guard never used the M16 or M4 - they still use the M14. It's a happy medium between having an excellent drill rifle, and having a weapon that is still effective as a weapon. The 1903 is a better drill rifle, and arguably so is the M1 Garand, but both are a little long in the tooth as a military weapon compared to a high capacity detachable box magazine fed semi-automatic rifle like the M14, which in turn is a much better drill rifle than an M16 or M4.
In terms of a pistol, the 1911 is still very appropriate given it's service in WWI, WWII, Korea and Vietnam - the wars for which unknown soldiers have been interred at the Tomb.
OP
DWalt
Member
Defined as for "Special Purpose" use. You can figure it out. Basically it has been decided that the 9mm with a better bullet will be a more effective round in many situations. The US is not a signatory to the Hague Convention and it is not too likely that we will be shooting at any foreign hostile combatants which are either. I don't know why the decision was made to cut the 124 grain FMJ M855 bullet back to 115 grains. Some European NATO militaries have used the 115 grain FMJ 9mm load for a long time - both 115 and 124 grain loads are OK'd for NATO use.
See: The Big Story on the Army’s Modular Handgun is the Ammo: Hollow Points! | NEWSREP
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Do you know what I find to be the most symbolic imagery, in the instance of both the Sentinels and the Queen's Guards?
The fixed bayonet.
That says more to me than making a rear sight out of marble dust, engraving an XXI on a pistol, or where you got the wood for the grips. A bayonet under the barrel of a rifle means something.
I don't know if the pistol are loaded or not, the rifle are definitely not loaded, in fact the guard will check his rifle before he handed to the sergeant for inspection, check out this video...
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4utXb3auOew[/ame]
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4utXb3auOew[/ame]
I've always been amazed at the amount of concentration it takes to be a Guard at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. I suppose every country has one or something similar. Here is a video of the Greek version. I think they are carrying Garands.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw-5GYg8WGo[/ame]
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw-5GYg8WGo[/ame]
inspcalahan
Member
at least not yet......
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