Gun errors in books and movies

[Alpo]

"for a while"?


You mean they don't do it that way now?

 

[BigBill]

Love "The Rifleman" intro, where Chuck fires more rounds from the 1892 Winchester lever rifle than the magazine can hold. Does he fire 12 or 13?

YouTube

I want one of them guns that never runs out of ammo?

In some movies they never use the outhouse in westerns. In newer movies no bathroom visits, are actors wearing diapers.

 

[amazingflapjack]

I am amazed at how well sheet rock protects some of these guys, or how easy it seems for them to expose themselves in order to return fire, or move while under fire-WOW.

 

[WR Moore]

Sorry to call you on this, but you are just wrong. The main charge on the battleship guns was not black powder for WWII era guns, but rather smokeless powder. ....

That's what I get for relying upon foggy memory and sea stories by former co-workers. I stand corrected. However, I went looking for the tech manuals. I found the Coast Artillery Manual from 1933 when the 16 inch rifled gun (M1919) was the New Big Thing. Can't find the detailed description I read last year about the limitations on the powder & charges. It's here somewhere. I do recall a prominent warning that chamber pressure MUST NOT exceed 40,000 psi as probability of detonation instead of burning reaches an unacceptable level. IIRC, working pressure was supposed to be in the 38,000 psi range. (We'd say cup these days, I also recall drawings for the copper crusher pressure measurement device.) There was a cited loading density that had to be matched to projectile weight unless they were loading short rounds.

That said, whatever nitro based powder we were using most likely wasn't cordite.

 

[Kiwi cop]

Ian Fleming issued James Bond with a Berns Martin holster for his PPK even though knowing the Berns Martin was for revolvers only. Fleming just liked the Berns Martin name.

What makes me laugh is when an actor loads and racks the slide of a semi auto, then when going into a situation he may need to shoot racks it again. The loaded round never ejects.

On another subject entirely I recall reading a magazine article many years ago on a real "semi automatic Colt SAA". A combination of excessive end shake, headspace and overlong firing pin allowed the pin to stick in the primer long enough for the recoil to allow the case to propel the hammer back enough to rotate the cylinder to the next round. The hammer would drop again and all five rounds discharged at a single pull of the trigger.

So maybe these writers, TV and movie people are on to something

 

[armenius]

Maybe.

No
He
Didn't.

First of all you don't keep a given weapon your entire career. You get issued a different weapon at every new duty station.

I have no idea what he told you or what was in his home but it was not a USMC issued weapon. And I won't even discuss ammunition which is accounted for To. The. Round. ( and people go to jail when they're caught with it)





You have no idea how closely "sensitive items" are monitored. Ft. Carson put the entire 2nd Brigade Combat Team on lockdown for a day and a half over a missing M9. (Berretta) No one from that entire unit (5000 people) was allowed to leave the post and most of them were confined to the barracks until that weapon was found.

Assuming that your late cousin was even allowed to leave post with an issue weapon his entire chain of command would be risking their careers by allowing him to keep that weapon in his quarters. If the weapon were stolen from his private quarters everyone from him up would have to explain how that weapon got out of the arms room.

Not if but when the IG showed up for a spot inventory the unit armorer and everyone from him up would have to explain why that weapon wasn't in the unit arms room. In either case careers would end. No unit armorer (or commander) would ever put their career on the line for that and no E9 would risk pissing his career away to keep an issue weapon at home.

Based on my actual military experience there is nothing you could tell me that would ever make me believe your story.

ETA I put the question to a friend of mine who retired as an E7 who was also in Supply and she said that in her entire career hell would freeze SOLID before what you're describing ever happened

I recall the Vice Presidential candidate Lloyd Benson stating his Army AirCorps issue 1911 on his bedside table This was his when he was a WWII B 17 pilot. Fcourse it may have been BS as he was a Democrat " who supported the Second Amendment".
My Grandson recently found in the attic of an old house belonging to a First World War a 1911 in GI webbing and holster which had a magazine full of ammo ofGI WWI vintage.
In the late 1940's I saw several carbines which had at that time not released through CMP.

 

[Texas Star]

I recall the Vice Presidential candidate Lloyd Benson stating his Army AirCorps issue 1911 on his bedside table This was his when he was a WWII B 17 pilot. Fcourse it may have been BS as he was a Democrat " who supported the Second Amendment".
My Grandson recently found in the attic of an old house belonging to a First World War a 1911 in GI webbing and holster which had a magazine full of ammo ofGI WWI vintage.
In the late 1940's I saw several carbines which had at that time not released through CMP.

I think the candidate's name was Lloyd Bentsen, not Benson.

Enough people did get away with pistols following WW II that he may have been telling the truth. Inventory is now far more strict, as is banning personal weapons.

The late author Robert Ruark took his .45 auto and a typewriter home from the Navy. He wrote an article about how they eventually traced the missing items to him and he was told to pay for them, which he did. He was an officer and probably had those things assigned to him, the .45 not being normally kept in an arms room. Senator Bentsen as a B-17 pilot probably kept his .45 in his quarters.

WW II was on such a vast scale that it was impossible to track everything. And a .45 might go missing in battle, being taken by some soldier who stole it off of a US casualty. It'd be charged off as lost in combat.

I read about one USAAF base in Burma or India where they were ordered after the war to just bury everything, rather than ship it home: planes, weapons, etc. I have to think some items listed as buried were taken home by men in that unit!

I think this extreme attitude about private guns stems from the Vietnam war, when most soldiers hated the war and many came from questionable moral backgrounds and many from slums, where drug use was common. Some "fragged" their own officers. And along the way, certain elements in Congress and the media had begun their serious assault on guns. I can't say more here, lest I violate a Rule.

 

[WR Moore]

They did release handguns to folks with the appropriate paperwork at the end of the world wars. I had a guy bring his grandads 1911 from WWI into the shop. Had all the paperwork showing it was released government property. Dunno if they did that after Korea. Midnight requisitioning/combat loss was also possible in other cases.

I've heard from several sources that 07 and up got to keep their sidearms upon retirement, but that may well have ended in the 1970's.

 

[Protected One]

What bugs me more than the gun errors in movies & TV shows are the "tactical errors" I see. For example, in a show I watched last night two good guys (one a navy seal) were cornered in a house by six heavily armed bad guys. The good guys were armed only with (2)revolvers and a double-barrel shotgun.

After killing two of the bad guys who tried to rush them through a door, rather than picking up the M16's they were carrying they simply backed away into another room LEAVING THE DEAD BAD GUY AND HIS GUY lying in the open door...all the while informing each other of how many rounds they had left.

Drives me nuts!

 

[vrd-vmd]

The Crook Factory
by Dan Simmons
Good story but really" flipping off the safety on the 357 magnum"
and a belt fed BAR!

 

[husker51]

The last time I watched "Kelly's Heroes", I noticed that the U.S. Army sniper was using a Mosin Nagant PU sniper rifle. I became familiar with these about 6 years back so recognized it. Thought it was a bit odd.

 

[Combat_Diver]

The Crook Factory
by Dan Simmons
Good story but really" flipping off the safety on the 357 magnum"
and a belt fed BAR!

There are couple semi auto .357 Magnums, the Coonan, Desert Eagle and Grizzly LAR. There is also a belt fed BAR Type D, its called the MAG58/M240

CD

 

[Rudi]

Kelly's Heroes was filmed in Yugoslavia. So either a "this is what we have" screw up or, Gratowski took it off a dead German who got it in Russia. My 2 cents.

 

[delcrossv]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the scene in innumerable movies and tv shows where someone is pointing an uncocked SA semi auto like a 1911 at another person, and then to show they're Really Serious, they rack the slide .

And, of course, the chamber was empty too.

 

[Lonegle57]

Watch SWAT while they are at the target range.

 

[armenius]

Thanks for the correction Texas Star, brain fog. There was a former Senator from a Texas -Lloyd Benson- and also a black minister named Lloyd Benson.

 

[jspick]

I have a female friend who writes western romance novels. She emails me and asks if saying this or that about a gun is correct or what can some animal can do or can't do. I enjoy helping her out. I have never read one of her novels.

 

[Cardboard_killer]

One of the annoying things is the selective damage bullets do in Hollywood. A bullet never blows the hero's head off; just hits him in the chest so he can have a last goodbye.

I watched Red Tails a few years ago, and one of the pilots is shot in the chest by the guns of an Me-262. The Me-262 carried four 30mm autocannon. If a man got hit in the chest with a 30mm shell, he wouldn't have time to call out on the radio, go get em, before dying.

 

[gunzo]

The list would be very short if we named the number of movies with no gun inaccuracies.

The list would be equally short is we named the number of news reports with no gun inaccuracies.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

...and in pictures from the Vietnam war.

Actually, suppressed handguns were in limited use by US forces in Vietnam.

.38 revolvers were relatively popular for use when clearing tunnels and bunker complexes. Most common were S&W Model 10 and Model 12 revolvers (standard issue in Army aviation units at the time), and some were equipped with suppressors that locked onto the barrel by a half-turn engaging the front sight in a recessed cut. Not terribly effective, but the reduction in noise and muzzle blast was noticeable, especially inside an enclosed space. My understanding is that these suppressors were made in US Army maintenance machine shops in Vietnam. S&W manufactured a specialized version of the Model 29 .44 magnum as a "tunnel gun" with very short barrel and cylinder modified to accept a special round loaded with multiple projectiles (these have been discussed on the forum before, and although not suppressed they are an example of specialized equipment for certain situations).

Ruger .22 semi-auto pistols with integral suppressors were used by some special operations personnel, usually on raids or prisoner snatch missions. Handy for dispatching guard dogs and human guards at close range. Those pistols were produced on military contract by Sturm Ruger Co.

US Army Special Forces used quite a few FN P35 (Browning Hi Power) 9mm pistols, some modified to accept a Maxim-style suppressor. The early development of heavy (145-147 grain) bullets at subsonic velocities was done in response to SF requests for an effectively suppressed handgun. Primary use was against guards and guard dogs, but I suspect a few assassinations were done as well.

Anyone who has ever had to clear enclosed spaces (huts, buildings, bunkers, tunnels, etc) will agree that any reduction in gunfire noise, muzzle blast, and muzzle flash is of value. Anyone who has ever engaged in close combat will understand that ear plugs are just not a viable option (all of your senses are needed).