If the laser was a bit longer I’d have to use the lock.
Practicing point & shoot in a variety of body positions .... pick a target, draw and point to target with eyes closed.... the laser never lies.
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Home Invasion Prevention Suggestions
- Thread starter DrDoctor
- Start date
If the laser was a bit longer I’d have to use the lock.
Practicing point & shoot in a variety of body positions .... pick a target, draw and point to target with eyes closed.... the laser never lies.
Ziggy2525
Member
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2016
- Messages
- 1,530
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- 3,249
Everybody knows Honda's and Toyota's are better than Fords and Chevy's.
Ziggy2525,
Whew . . . exactly. But, sometimes my frustrations just get away with me . . . Sorry ‘bout that.
Gamecock,
Oooops . . . that can’t be a good sign . . .
Muss Muggins,
Now that’s funny . . .
Jack Flash,
The Judge we have has the 3” barrel, and a 2½” cylinder. The rifling’s probably as shallow as it can be and still avoid the NFA exception for being a smooth-bore handgun. As such, at around 20’, the 000 buckshot spreads (the “halo effect” resultant to what rifling’s present) significantly, and at 30+’ – “fugitaboudit”, you’d almost be as well off to just throw the gun at the target. Now, at 10-15’ – that’s a different story – 15’ and less is that gun’s “sweet-spot”, as it were . . .
Muss Muggins,
Your Governor, and our Judge, are both using the same Hornady Critical Defense Triple Defense. Since this isn’t a buckshot round, “haloing” isn’t an issue, which increases the effective range while maintaining accuracy, at least in the Judge. What do you think the Governor’s result would be?
I considered the Winchester PDX1 Defender disc ammunition very, very strongly. I like the concept, but I had some concerns about the dispersion of the BB’s. The discs would also have an effective range while maintaining accuracy, but I think the BB’s are going to “halo” significantly at the 25+30+’ point. Your thot's???
Kanewpadle,
That’s funny . . .
Fredj338,
Surprise . . . the instructor we had/have conceded that the 460V wouldn’t be his 1st choice. But, given my size (6’1”, 215 lbs, large frame), the gun’s dynamics, and my selected ammunition, he felt that the advantages of my combinations far outweighed my choice of armament. He was/is right – given what I was using (I was firing his 460V – mine’s still a virgin), I had no problems controlling it. Since I made the custom-fit grips on mine, it’s even better to hold, even tho’ it’s 2 ozs “stouter” (with the additional weight in my hand, and not out at the barrel-end.
W R Moore,
Excellent recommendations. We couldn’t find an attorney locally who felt comfortable in this field. The state police have a law firm, but it’s located in a major metro area (Philly), and we visited with them on the phone, but didn’t get into any lengthy specifics lest we be charged for their time. The gun instructor also recommends that firm.
As for reaction distance, with the Hornady Critical Defense ammunition, we’ve got approximately 30’ to deal with, but with the 000 buckshot, that distance’s pruned to a realistic 10-15’, so the instructor stresses that we’ve got to commit at the 20’ point, and act at the 10’ point – not the easiest scenario. So, we keep the Judge loaded with the Hornady Critical Defense ammunition.
Delcrossv,
Hmmmmm . . . . a laser . . . I gotta think about that . . .
Imissedagain,
Delaware’s an open-carry state, so one can do so without a CCW permit. Without a CCW permit, concealed carry’s illegal – even in your own home!!! Crazy, but true. You’re right – I don’t think a 460V will get misplaced as easily as a J-Framed snub-nosed revolver, but that’s just me . . .
A big Thank You for your comment about politeness. I’d like to think that civility isn’t passé. We can have disparagent points of view, and if we can’t/don’t/won’t agree, we can at least agree to disagree, and do so cordially. Again, that’s just me.
Dockmurgw,
That’s an accurate observation . . .
Contributors, as I initially stated in this particular comment – I let my frustrations just get the best of me. And, that shouldn’t have occurred. I now refer all of you to my closing remarks to Imissedagain pertaining to cordiality, and hope you can overlook my momentary lapse. Warmest personal regards . . .
Whew . . . exactly. But, sometimes my frustrations just get away with me . . . Sorry ‘bout that.
Gamecock,
Oooops . . . that can’t be a good sign . . .
Muss Muggins,
Now that’s funny . . .
Jack Flash,
The Judge we have has the 3” barrel, and a 2½” cylinder. The rifling’s probably as shallow as it can be and still avoid the NFA exception for being a smooth-bore handgun. As such, at around 20’, the 000 buckshot spreads (the “halo effect” resultant to what rifling’s present) significantly, and at 30+’ – “fugitaboudit”, you’d almost be as well off to just throw the gun at the target. Now, at 10-15’ – that’s a different story – 15’ and less is that gun’s “sweet-spot”, as it were . . .
Muss Muggins,
Your Governor, and our Judge, are both using the same Hornady Critical Defense Triple Defense. Since this isn’t a buckshot round, “haloing” isn’t an issue, which increases the effective range while maintaining accuracy, at least in the Judge. What do you think the Governor’s result would be?
I considered the Winchester PDX1 Defender disc ammunition very, very strongly. I like the concept, but I had some concerns about the dispersion of the BB’s. The discs would also have an effective range while maintaining accuracy, but I think the BB’s are going to “halo” significantly at the 25+30+’ point. Your thot's???
Kanewpadle,
That’s funny . . .
Fredj338,
Surprise . . . the instructor we had/have conceded that the 460V wouldn’t be his 1st choice. But, given my size (6’1”, 215 lbs, large frame), the gun’s dynamics, and my selected ammunition, he felt that the advantages of my combinations far outweighed my choice of armament. He was/is right – given what I was using (I was firing his 460V – mine’s still a virgin), I had no problems controlling it. Since I made the custom-fit grips on mine, it’s even better to hold, even tho’ it’s 2 ozs “stouter” (with the additional weight in my hand, and not out at the barrel-end.
W R Moore,
Excellent recommendations. We couldn’t find an attorney locally who felt comfortable in this field. The state police have a law firm, but it’s located in a major metro area (Philly), and we visited with them on the phone, but didn’t get into any lengthy specifics lest we be charged for their time. The gun instructor also recommends that firm.
As for reaction distance, with the Hornady Critical Defense ammunition, we’ve got approximately 30’ to deal with, but with the 000 buckshot, that distance’s pruned to a realistic 10-15’, so the instructor stresses that we’ve got to commit at the 20’ point, and act at the 10’ point – not the easiest scenario. So, we keep the Judge loaded with the Hornady Critical Defense ammunition.
Delcrossv,
Hmmmmm . . . . a laser . . . I gotta think about that . . .
Imissedagain,
Delaware’s an open-carry state, so one can do so without a CCW permit. Without a CCW permit, concealed carry’s illegal – even in your own home!!! Crazy, but true. You’re right – I don’t think a 460V will get misplaced as easily as a J-Framed snub-nosed revolver, but that’s just me . . .
A big Thank You for your comment about politeness. I’d like to think that civility isn’t passé. We can have disparagent points of view, and if we can’t/don’t/won’t agree, we can at least agree to disagree, and do so cordially. Again, that’s just me.
Dockmurgw,
That’s an accurate observation . . .
Contributors, as I initially stated in this particular comment – I let my frustrations just get the best of me. And, that shouldn’t have occurred. I now refer all of you to my closing remarks to Imissedagain pertaining to cordiality, and hope you can overlook my momentary lapse. Warmest personal regards . . .
Jack Flash
Member
Just to be clear, I did say
"... you won't get much spread from a shotgun at across-the-room range ..."
I thought it was clear that I meant the shotgun, not the handgun.
fredj338
Member
Well again, I would likely discount any instructor that would recommend such a choice. If I had a student come to me as you did, I would certainly make it work for them but there are just better choices.
You say you can control it but you cant put 5rds inside a 5" circle at a mere 5 feet in 1sec intervals, I would say you can not really control it. I would bet you could do it with a smaller 4" 38sp though. Keep practicing, one & two handed. The chance you will ever need the guns is minimal. Still consider the dog.
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686-380
Member
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2013
- Messages
- 832
- Reaction score
- 703
GAAAA, I HATE MOVING!!!! OP, Good on you two for being proactive. The only thing I'd mention is making the most of the mobility you two have left: yoga, stretching, etc. I realize I'm preaching to the choir but a reminder won't hurt. Good luck with the move.
fredj338
Member
GAAAA, I HATE MOVING!!!! OP, Good on you two for being proactive. The only thing I'd mention is making the most of the mobility you two have left: yoga, stretching, etc. I realize I'm preaching to the choir but a reminder won't hurt. Good luck with the move.
Good point. Often over looked as folks get older is the need to continue to exercise & weight training of some kind. Things can get close & personal in a hurry if someone is inside your home. Being able to resist force with force so you can deploy a weapon is important. Another reason I prefer a good fighting handgun to a shotgun, it will be harder to take the handgun away from you. Something else btw that needs some training & practice, weapon retention; how to move through your space safely with your chosen weapon & how to keep it if you are surprised in close.
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Chief Wiggums
Member
Doc
After the 1rst 7 or 8 replies , the headache set in , so I must admit , I have read 97% of the thread. So...short and simple.
A: dog(s) plural
B: shotgun w 00
C: practice frequently as it keeps you sharp and it is fun
After the 1rst 7 or 8 replies , the headache set in , so I must admit , I have read 97% of the thread. So...short and simple.
A: dog(s) plural
B: shotgun w 00
C: practice frequently as it keeps you sharp and it is fun
My experience tells me buckshot isn't best for self defense. Yes, it'll knock 'em on their ***. But they'll get over it. Hit 'em again. And again, as was needed once. No problem when hunting.
When the animal has two legs, and is trying to do you in, it's a problem.
Ballistic self defense weapons work by penetration. Buckshot from a handgun isn't going to penetrate adequately. Period. It's not rocket surgery.
When the animal has two legs, and is trying to do you in, it's a problem.
Ballistic self defense weapons work by penetration. Buckshot from a handgun isn't going to penetrate adequately. Period. It's not rocket surgery.
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All you're trying to do in a self defense situation is make the other fella decide there's something else that needs attention at the moment. Getting knocked on your rear end generally does that for anyone who's not attacking a cop to keep from going to jail. If they're truly trying to do YOU in, you've got a lot more problems, and that's an incredibly rare scenario that I choose not to plan for . . .
My most expansive field of fire in the scenario in which I plan to use the Governor is no longer than seven yards, a distance at which either of those loads will be more than adequate to convince the perpetrator that something else requires urgent attention besides being in my home. As such, I haven't given it any more thought . . .
Having to actually have to shoot someone is EXTREMELY RARE. If they are not convinced by your having a gun that they need to be somewhere else, you better be able to put them down . . . quickly and permanently.
"loads will be more than adequate to convince the perpetrator that something else requires urgent attention besides being in my home."
This is a fundamental lack of understanding what is needed in a defensive shooting situation.
"loads will be more than adequate to convince the perpetrator that something else requires urgent attention besides being in my home."
This is a fundamental lack of understanding what is needed in a defensive shooting situation.
Duly noted . . .
Edit: I don't usually add anything after signifying that the respondent's post has been given its due attention and then completely disregarded, but I feel the need to point out that nobody's goal should be putting down an aggressor "permanently" Good luck with that mindset . . .
Edit: I don't usually add anything after signifying that the respondent's post has been given its due attention and then completely disregarded, but I feel the need to point out that nobody's goal should be putting down an aggressor "permanently" Good luck with that mindset . . .
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Jack Flash,
Oooops . . . my bad – I did miss that – sorry . . .
Fredj338,
A shot every second – I doubt if I could’ve done that in my best days. Perhaps every 2 seconds – not that’s plausible. And, hopefully, you’re right – we’ll never have to our training/practicing to practical use. OK, as for exercise – I hate it. I’m a classic example of “do as I say, not as I do” – I smoked cigars (a lot), until I had my 3rd MI about 10 years ago. I used to tell patients to exercise, but my own version of that was going from the parking building to my office, and back. I jokingly told people that “I only have so-many heart beats assigned to me, and I don’t want to waste them by splurging with them now. After the last MI – no more cigars, and I mow the yard (a “too-big” yard) with a push-mower (I take me ½ day) rather than the riding tractor/mower we’ve got. But, I still hate exercising!!! I now do so reluctantly, and only as a visitor . . .
686-380,
Thanks, we do try to move around, but with the severe cold, we’re not going out in that – no way, no how. But, we’re optimistic – the cold can’t last forever – (Can it???).
Chief Wiggums,
OK, A) probably not until after we move; B) 000, because we’ve already got it (see next comment to Gamecock); and C) agreed. (see my comment to Muss Muggins below . . .)
Gamecock,
Agreed, which is why the Judge is stoked with the Hornady Personal Defense Triple Defense ammunition.
Muss Miggins,
Agreed. . . we really hope that the potential of anyone trying to enter the house uninvited again is rare. The longest field of fire we have is 7 yards max, 15’-“ish” is more like for us, and for that – the Judge with the Hornady ammunition is more than sufficient. And, also agreed – if the situation should present itself, we’d rather incapacitate the intruder and let the authorities deal with him, rather than kill him.
Out fervent hope is that all of this training/practicing is just a huge waste of time, and will never be used. We also hope that such an event repeating itself’ is extremely rare, that the 2 attempted-intrusions are a “life quota”, and therefore, we’ve had our quota. Warmest regards to all . . .
Oooops . . . my bad – I did miss that – sorry . . .
Fredj338,
A shot every second – I doubt if I could’ve done that in my best days. Perhaps every 2 seconds – not that’s plausible. And, hopefully, you’re right – we’ll never have to our training/practicing to practical use. OK, as for exercise – I hate it. I’m a classic example of “do as I say, not as I do” – I smoked cigars (a lot), until I had my 3rd MI about 10 years ago. I used to tell patients to exercise, but my own version of that was going from the parking building to my office, and back. I jokingly told people that “I only have so-many heart beats assigned to me, and I don’t want to waste them by splurging with them now. After the last MI – no more cigars, and I mow the yard (a “too-big” yard) with a push-mower (I take me ½ day) rather than the riding tractor/mower we’ve got. But, I still hate exercising!!! I now do so reluctantly, and only as a visitor . . .
686-380,
Thanks, we do try to move around, but with the severe cold, we’re not going out in that – no way, no how. But, we’re optimistic – the cold can’t last forever – (Can it???).
Chief Wiggums,
OK, A) probably not until after we move; B) 000, because we’ve already got it (see next comment to Gamecock); and C) agreed. (see my comment to Muss Muggins below . . .)
Gamecock,
Agreed, which is why the Judge is stoked with the Hornady Personal Defense Triple Defense ammunition.
Muss Miggins,
Agreed. . . we really hope that the potential of anyone trying to enter the house uninvited again is rare. The longest field of fire we have is 7 yards max, 15’-“ish” is more like for us, and for that – the Judge with the Hornady ammunition is more than sufficient. And, also agreed – if the situation should present itself, we’d rather incapacitate the intruder and let the authorities deal with him, rather than kill him.
Out fervent hope is that all of this training/practicing is just a huge waste of time, and will never be used. We also hope that such an event repeating itself’ is extremely rare, that the 2 attempted-intrusions are a “life quota”, and therefore, we’ve had our quota. Warmest regards to all . . .
GreyOwl
Member
Don't stop with just this. Replace at least one screw in each hinge with another 3" screw into the jamb stud!
fredj338
Member
Throughout our lives we take on tasks, learn new skills, some valuable, most not. Not unlike emergency trauma care, you spend the time to learn it but hope you never have to use it. It is time & money well spent when if you become that victim of a violent assault. It happens quite a lot across the entire country.
So we can choose to be victims & wait the avg 8-9m for police response & hope & pray to survive, or we learn some basic skills & get proper tools to defend ourselves. 9m is a long time to wait for police response when someone is already inside your house. A determined killer can enter your unarmed home, kill everyone in it & leave before police even arrive. Nope doesnt happen often but if you are the unlucky person, that really doesnt matter does it. No such thing as too much training or practice or high enough skill level when its your butt on the line or worse, your loved ones.
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pittpa
Member
Poor shot placement?
Probably on meth.
GreyOwl,
All of our exterior doors are steel, with steel frames, and the doors interlock solidly with their frames when the doors are closed (there are pins in each of the 3 hinges, and the pins extend into the door, and the door frame), and all of the exterior doors have triple locks. The lock striker plates are heavy brass-plated steel, and are sunk into the door frame. The door frames are mounted into multi-layer 2x6 framing with many long screws (I’d guess 3”, and are of substantial diameter – I saw them when the front door was removed when new weather stripping was installed on the door, and on the lip of the door frame). Our house design’s called a “salt box”, and the front porch is more of a stoop than a porch – 3 people huddled close together pretty much fill it. In fact, when the storm door opens, it almost sweeps the porch of people – the porch extends about 12” from each side of the door, and the storm door’s 36’ wide, and it’s only about 4-6” from the front of the porch when the door’s open perpendicular to the front of the house. So, there isn’t a lot of room for kicking the door. And, no one can ram it with a vehicle as there are 5 steps to traverse to get to the level of the door. The same goes for the back door. The driveway encounters the garage door parallel to the door, and it’s wall, not perpendicular to it. There’s only about a 20’ stretch from the garage door to a big tree, and one has to make a sharp 90o turn in that 20’ to negotiate into the garage – not enough room to ram it with any success, plus the door’s also heavy steel, and each panel’s reinforced, as are the pivots that it rotates on. When discussing this, it seems as tho’ I’m describing a fortress, or a vault, but it’s a house, albeit abit more substantial than the others in the area, but we’re only 3 miles from the Atlantic Ocean, and hurricanes are a concern here. The original owner of the house was also a doctor, had it custom built in the late-80’s, and he must’ve really been concerned about coastal storms . . .
Fredj338,
Words to live by . . . In med school, internship, residency, and fellowship, we’re instructed to expect, and to deal with, the worst case scenario, knowing the odds of a worst case scenario are minimal. If we don’t encounter that worst case scenario, we consider it a bonus, or a gift. But, if on that rare occasion we do encounter that worst case scenario, we prepared for it, and can deal with it accordingly. So, as you pointed out – it’s better to be over-trained rather than under-trained. Think about it – if you, or a loved one – presented to the ER, which doctor would you want – the over-trained one, or the under-trained one???
All of our exterior doors are steel, with steel frames, and the doors interlock solidly with their frames when the doors are closed (there are pins in each of the 3 hinges, and the pins extend into the door, and the door frame), and all of the exterior doors have triple locks. The lock striker plates are heavy brass-plated steel, and are sunk into the door frame. The door frames are mounted into multi-layer 2x6 framing with many long screws (I’d guess 3”, and are of substantial diameter – I saw them when the front door was removed when new weather stripping was installed on the door, and on the lip of the door frame). Our house design’s called a “salt box”, and the front porch is more of a stoop than a porch – 3 people huddled close together pretty much fill it. In fact, when the storm door opens, it almost sweeps the porch of people – the porch extends about 12” from each side of the door, and the storm door’s 36’ wide, and it’s only about 4-6” from the front of the porch when the door’s open perpendicular to the front of the house. So, there isn’t a lot of room for kicking the door. And, no one can ram it with a vehicle as there are 5 steps to traverse to get to the level of the door. The same goes for the back door. The driveway encounters the garage door parallel to the door, and it’s wall, not perpendicular to it. There’s only about a 20’ stretch from the garage door to a big tree, and one has to make a sharp 90o turn in that 20’ to negotiate into the garage – not enough room to ram it with any success, plus the door’s also heavy steel, and each panel’s reinforced, as are the pivots that it rotates on. When discussing this, it seems as tho’ I’m describing a fortress, or a vault, but it’s a house, albeit abit more substantial than the others in the area, but we’re only 3 miles from the Atlantic Ocean, and hurricanes are a concern here. The original owner of the house was also a doctor, had it custom built in the late-80’s, and he must’ve really been concerned about coastal storms . . .
Fredj338,
Words to live by . . . In med school, internship, residency, and fellowship, we’re instructed to expect, and to deal with, the worst case scenario, knowing the odds of a worst case scenario are minimal. If we don’t encounter that worst case scenario, we consider it a bonus, or a gift. But, if on that rare occasion we do encounter that worst case scenario, we prepared for it, and can deal with it accordingly. So, as you pointed out – it’s better to be over-trained rather than under-trained. Think about it – if you, or a loved one – presented to the ER, which doctor would you want – the over-trained one, or the under-trained one???
The one (well placed) round per second is a really good standard to strive for in resolution of lethal assault. Never having watched you shoot I have no clue why-even on your best days- you can't accomplish this. I'd suggest a lot of practice, if that doesn't do it, a different instructor.
I noted your aversion to exercise. I will suggest two mild items you should consider: 1. Get a tennis ball or other hand exerciser and work on hand strength. 2. Isometric exercises for the arms. Extend the arms forward at shoulder height. Make a fist with the gun hand, wrap the support hand around the front. Flex the elbows slightly outward and press forward with the gun hand, resist with the support hand for a 10 count. Repeat with the other hand acting as the gun hand. Have a 20 count between repetitions and do at least 5 reps per pressing hand. You can multi task and do this while watching TV. Increase pressure/reps as your strength increases.
You're training to shoot to stop the lethal assault. What happens as a result of that action is not your responsibility.
Don't bet on you having used up your quota of unwelcome visitors.
I noted your aversion to exercise. I will suggest two mild items you should consider: 1. Get a tennis ball or other hand exerciser and work on hand strength. 2. Isometric exercises for the arms. Extend the arms forward at shoulder height. Make a fist with the gun hand, wrap the support hand around the front. Flex the elbows slightly outward and press forward with the gun hand, resist with the support hand for a 10 count. Repeat with the other hand acting as the gun hand. Have a 20 count between repetitions and do at least 5 reps per pressing hand. You can multi task and do this while watching TV. Increase pressure/reps as your strength increases.
You're training to shoot to stop the lethal assault. What happens as a result of that action is not your responsibility.
Don't bet on you having used up your quota of unwelcome visitors.
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WRMoore,
As onerous as exercise is to me, those you suggested aren’t so intrusive that I wouldn’t do them. So, I’ll give them a try, and I’ll do as suggested – while watching TV. Thanks for your thoughtfulness, and for the suggestions.
As for the 1-second per shot – I’ve never shot quicker than 1½-2 second range, so I guess with continued concentration on that, I might be able to nudge the 1-second per shot the 1-second per shot goal . . . we’ll see . . .
While you’re correct about the purpose of the training – to stop the lethal assault against us, I have to disagree with your next sentence – a person’s always responsible for their own conscious actions, including an armed lethal assault against us.
As for my “life quota” comment, I’ll confess to being abit facetious – there’s no quota system when it comes to uninvited intrusions – attempted, or successful. I just hope that such an event remains a rare on in our lives, and yours, as well.
Warmest personal regards to you and yours.
As onerous as exercise is to me, those you suggested aren’t so intrusive that I wouldn’t do them. So, I’ll give them a try, and I’ll do as suggested – while watching TV. Thanks for your thoughtfulness, and for the suggestions.
As for the 1-second per shot – I’ve never shot quicker than 1½-2 second range, so I guess with continued concentration on that, I might be able to nudge the 1-second per shot the 1-second per shot goal . . . we’ll see . . .
While you’re correct about the purpose of the training – to stop the lethal assault against us, I have to disagree with your next sentence – a person’s always responsible for their own conscious actions, including an armed lethal assault against us.
As for my “life quota” comment, I’ll confess to being abit facetious – there’s no quota system when it comes to uninvited intrusions – attempted, or successful. I just hope that such an event remains a rare on in our lives, and yours, as well.
Warmest personal regards to you and yours.
