Home Invasion Prevention Suggestions

[fredj338]

Would you want to use a .36 caliber gun shooting 68 grain bullets* for self defense?

5 at a time doesn't make them any better. Inadequate is inadequate.

*Triple ought buck specs

I tend to agree, but that is what makes buckshot effective; multiple impacts & tissue damage happening simultaneously. With a 12ga we are looking to land 8-10 of those at once. Its just a bit of a reach in a snub handgin though.

 

[Loyaljeeper]

I’ve stayed out of the caliber war that this thread has become. I actually have some experience with a Judge so I feel as if I have some actual experience to bring. I have probabbly put 100 rounds through a Judge and watched others put another 200 rounds through the same Judge. I have a bigger problem with the gun than the actual performance. With 45 Colt it is a serious beast. I see the appeal of you want to shoot big heavy pieces of lead. I see the limitation of five rounds being the biggest drawback to the gun. I have seen about 10% of the .410 shells experience a weak primer strike. I am inclined to believe it is a bigger issue with the hard shotgun primers than the gun itself. Every .45 Colt round has fired and fired accurately. Bird shot penetrates cardboard but not much more. Buckshot, at least most buckshot, penetrates plastic barrel very similar to what I have seen 32acp rounds penetrate. I remember thinking the buckshot should be limited to 20ft or less for a self defense gun. While it wouldn’t be my first pick of a home defense handgun, I would probabbly pick it over a mousegun.

 

[fredj338]

I’ve stayed out of the caliber war that this thread has become. I actually have some experience with a Judge so I feel as if I have some actual experience to bring. I have probabbly put 100 rounds through a Judge and watched others put another 200 rounds through the same Judge. I have a bigger problem with the gun than the actual performance. With 45 Colt it is a serious beast. I see the appeal of you want to shoot big heavy pieces of lead. I see the limitation of five rounds being the biggest drawback to the gun. I have seen about 10% of the .410 shells experience a weak primer strike. I am inclined to believe it is a bigger issue with the hard shotgun primers than the gun itself. Every .45 Colt round has fired and fired accurately. Bird shot penetrates cardboard but not much more. Buckshot, at least most buckshot, penetrates plastic barrel very similar to what I have seen 32acp rounds penetrate. I remember thinking the buckshot should be limited to 20ft or less for a self defense gun. While it wouldn’t be my first pick of a home defense handgun, I would probabbly pick it over a mousegun.

I do not think it is so much a caliber debate vs knowledge & experience. The op, imo, as a total novice bought he wrong weapons in the 460 & judge. Medium size, 4" matching revolvers in 38sp/357mag would be a better choice if he wants a revolver. Less recoil, adequate performance in 38 & a step up in 357mag if he & his wife develope the skill set to manage recoil. Right tools, right training, 65, 75 or 85, you dont want to be the bad guys that face them.
I would still get the dog. An alert dog, regardless of size, is a good early warning device. They also double as companions, win, win. A bigger dog offers bigger bark, always a deterent to most bad guys. They dont like dog bites. A better bluff than yelling "I have a gun" Imo. I doubt my 75# airedale would bite someone but her bark says otherwise.

 

[Loyaljeeper]

I would imagine that 460 x Frame with standard pressure 45 Colt loads recoil less than a k frame and it’s still a six shooter.

 

[Frogwalking]

A .460 weighs 4 1/2 lbs. Not what I would choose for home defense. Is anyone else's BS detector going off?

 

[Loyaljeeper]

For Home defense I would be more concerned about it falling off the night stand and breaking a foot. If something goes bump in the night he has to carry it for three whole minutes. It still weighs less Han a shotgun.

 

[DrDoctor]

I feel that the discussion about what guns we’ve already purchased is getting out of hand. Please keep in mind that the guns we’ve purchased are just that - already purchased. Further, the purchase decisions were made with a great deal of tho’t, research, discussion, research, input from informed individuals, research, input from professional gun-handlers, ie: police, research, and more research.
I’ve got firearms experience as a youngster, and while in the Navy, am quite comfortable with them, tried several different ones, and made an informed decision – I prefer a revolver. My wife was also raised around guns, and she’s quite comfortable around them, and with the one she has – she wanted a revolver – also an informed decision. The Judge’s a shared firearm, one we’re both comfortable with – also an informed decision. So – experts(???) – no. But, total novices(???) – we ain’t. Uninformed(???) – definitely not. A 4½ lb gun (???) – what??? The heaviest one in our “inventory” is my 460V, and it weighs 3 pounds 12 ounces – NOT 4½ pounds. A “BS Meter”(???) – whatever that means . . . but, it certainly doesn’t have the appearance of being in good taste, nor in the positive spirit, heretofore experienced within this conversation. However, we’ll not let one individual’s comment dampen our enthusiasm for this forum.

Loyaljeeper, Thank You for your sustained support – we DO appreciate it. You, and the vast majority of the contributors, understand the situation, and the details thereof.
To the contributors – you have our gratitude, and our appreciation, for your understanding of our situation, and for your constructive comments presented. We’ll be incorporating many of your recommendations/suggestions presented. Warmest regards . . .

 

[Ziggy2525]

I feel that the discussion about what guns we’ve already purchased is getting out of hand.
...

It’s the internet. Separating the “wheat from the chaff” is a manual operation.

“The pistol is too big.” “The pistol is too small and inadequate.” “The round is too powerful, you’ll get over penetration.” “The round is too weak, it’ll never stop anyone.” “You don’t have enough training.” “You’re wasting your money on training.”

Use the opinions that work for you and ignore the the rest. Otherwise it can get frustrating. You seem to be doing just fine with your preparations. Somewhere in the thread I thought I even saw an answer or to your original question about 460 ammo along with some other good suggestions about preparations. Did I mention it’s the internet.

 

[Gamecock]

I have shot two deer with buckshot. They both went down. They both got back up.

 

[Muss Muggins]

I have shot two deer with buckshot. They both went down. They both got back up.

Were they coming down the hallway at you? Did they keep charging you or did they run away?

 

[Jack Flash]

I feel that the discussion about what guns we’ve already purchased is getting out of hand. Please keep in mind that the guns we’ve purchased are just that - already purchased. Further, the purchase decisions were made with a great deal of tho’t, research, discussion, research, input from informed individuals, research, input from professional gun-handlers, ie: police, research, and more research.
. . .

You have a pretty good handle on it. After all, any gun is better than no gun and you have 4 in your "inventory". They may not be what I would pick, but then, I'm not you.

I have no experience with the .410 so this is more of a question than advice:
Since many here seem so concerned about lackluster performance by buckshot out of a .410, and given that you won't get much spread from a shotgun at across-the-room range anyways, would it make sense to load the shotgun with slugs?

With buckshot there would be less fear of over penetration, but it sounds like people here have more fear of under penetration so that's why I ask about slugs.

 

[Muss Muggins]

Since many here seem so concerned about lackluster performance by buckshot out of a .410, and given that you won't get much spread from a shotgun at across-the-room range anyways, would it make sense to load the shotgun with slugs?

With buckshot there would be less fear of over penetration, but it sounds like people here have more fear of under penetration so that's why I ask about slugs.

This is what the Governor and I use:

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/handgun/410-critical-defense-2-1-2#!/

or

Winchester PDX1 Defender Ammo 410 Bore 2-1/2 3 - UPC: 020892020054

 

[Kanewpadle]

I have shot two deer with buckshot. They both went down. They both got back up.

Poor shot placement?

 

[fredj338]

I would imagine that 460 x Frame with standard pressure 45 Colt loads recoil less than a k frame and it’s still a six shooter.

Its a huge gun, not easy to wield, especially one handed, which is certainly possible in a home def situation.

 

[fredj338]

I feel that the discussion about what guns we’ve already purchased is getting out of hand. Please keep in mind that the guns we’ve purchased are just that - already purchased. Further, the purchase decisions were made with a great deal of tho’t, research, discussion, research, input from informed individuals, research, input from professional gun-handlers, ie: police, research, and more research.
I’ve got firearms experience as a youngster, and while in the Navy, am quite comfortable with them, tried several different ones, and made an informed decision – I prefer a revolver. My wife was also raised around guns, and she’s quite comfortable around them, and with the one she has – she wanted a revolver – also an informed decision. The Judge’s a shared firearm, one we’re both comfortable with – also an informed decision. So – experts(???) – no. But, total novices(???) – we ain’t. Uninformed(???) – definitely not. A 4½ lb gun (???) – what??? The heaviest one in our “inventory” is my 460V, and it weighs 3 pounds 12 ounces – NOT 4½ pounds. A “BS Meter”(???) – whatever that means . . . but, it certainly doesn’t have the appearance of being in good taste, nor in the positive spirit, heretofore experienced within this conversation. However, we’ll not let one individual’s comment dampen our enthusiasm for this forum.
. . .

Now you are losing me. I can not think of a single professional trainer that would have recommended a 460, sorry, just not gonna happen. Most professionals will make a gun recommendation based on purpose, need, skill level, physical ability & how/where it will be used. If nothing else, cost of ammo would preclude you from shooting it enough to just become competent. Fwiw, the same for your trainer & what he is doing to teach you to shoot. I doubt you can show me a single article, much less several, that you studied that lead you to such conclusions of what training & equip you should be getting/using.
When I start brand new shooters, we use a 22lr, easier to teach fundamentals when you remove the recoil. Then I move up to 38sp in a 4" revo, then 9mm in a heavy gun, then 9mm in lighter guns. We never get to anything heavier recoil until maybe 3rd or 4th lesson & even then, its as a trial run to see if the shooter wants the recoil.
We all have diff opinions on what works & what does not. Many of us have these opinion based on 10s of 1000s of rds in training & competition. If you are set on your gun choices, now you need to tuck in & learn to shoot them, that is job #1. Only hits count, good hits count more & faster good are the ultimate goal.

 

[WR Moore]

Doc,

I suggest you visit the Force Science Institute website and read up on the reactionary gap. You mentioned a 10 foot distance several times, perhaps as an example. However, a reasonably fit individual can cover 10 feet in less than 1/2 a second. Enough less that you may recognize the attack but be unable to react to it, certainly not able to halt it.

I'd further suggest that you visit the Ayoob Group website and see if he's going to be teaching in your area. The MAG20 class on legal use of force would be well worth the money. Given the physical challenges you and your wife face, you may have somewhat more lee way in response to an attack by individual(s) younger and more fit than you. At least pick up his book Deadly Force, Understanding Your Right to Self Defense. The course featuring live fire would probably also benefit you. I've been to a bunch of different schools and learned something for all of them.

I'd suggest a consultation with a local attorney, but use of force is a specialist legal practice and based upon personal experience, some are flatly incompetent on that subject. Not really their fault, law schools spend virtually no time on the subject.

 

[Jack Flash]

I have shot two deer with buckshot. They both went down. They both got back up.

Poor shot placement?

Gauge? Range?

 

[delcrossv]

To my mind, probably the most effective deterrent is a dog. We've always kept large dogs (we currently have an Anatolian Shepherd) and while that'd probably be too much dog for the OP, something like a Belgian Malanois would make their house much less attractive to a burglar. Lights and the rest are all fine and good, but you really can't beat a dog to remove your house from the target list.

<segue>

I have a 460V and, much to detriment of my pocketbook, have over 1000 rounds though it. With 45LC's it is very mild. But it wouldn't be my first pick as a home defense gun. Just due to its size and weight, it's rather cumbersome and really needs a 2 hand grip to take advantage of its great accuracy. But seeing how the OP picked it, the only thing to do is practice, practice,practice. Doesn't matter what you're carrying if you can't hit the target.

Edit: I would suggest the OP consider a laser. It would improve the time to get the weapon on target considerably.

 

[Imissedagain]

Did I miss the response as to why a gun can be bought but not carried in or around the home?
I grew up in NYC.

A light weight revolver might be more likely to fall off a nightstand than an X Frame ..... or Double Wide Leaning J Frame as we call them in South Florida..... when stumbling to grab it as you wake abruptly..... I don’t think we’ll see a “bedside gun grab” competition at Perry or Bianchi any time soon.

The guns listed by the OP, when easily accessible, would be fine in my home if we could afford more than one as well.

This is one of the most polite sites on the web.

 

[dockmurgw]

This is like reading a Ford vs. Chevy thread !