New Zealand

The "anti's" may not be satisfied.

Some backlash about the new legislation has been published in the last few days. From liberals who do not appear to be satisfied with how far the changes go.

A news article today from one of our two main daily newspaper publishers.

NRA calls for stop to NZ'''s '''socialist disarmament''' alongside appeal for donations | Stuff.co.nz

Bashing the American NRA has been a common theme, but the closing comments on pistol shooters appear to show where the next attack will come.

Interestingly another news website yesterday highlighted research in Australia which has shown many times that the 1996 restrictions has not changed the occurrences of gun violence.

Yes, there have been no more mass shootings since 1996, but the truth is there had only been one previous mass shooting in 1998 so there was little data for comparison. And as the research highlighted, why were there no shootings prior to 1988 when gun laws were so lax?

Makes you think something else other than gun laws has lead to these shootings. Societal attitudes perhaps?
 
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If a a tyrannical government is being forced on us here, I hope that our military will step in and stop it as they have done for so many other countries around the world. At that point, they would be our only hope.
 
And that difference is...?

American citizens' right to keep and bear arms is heavily restricted in some parts of this country, in spite of the fact that we have a Constitution which includes the Second Amendment. And in other parts of the country, citizens are told which firearms they can or cannot possess, along with certain accessories. Certain firearms are effectively banned in parts of the United States.

I might like to have an SBR. Or a shotgun with a 12-inch barrel. But I can't legally possess one in this state. It isn't a monarch telling me I can't...it's the government...the government elected by the people.

And with recent laws passed in certain states, a gun owner's firearms are subject to immediate seizure by the state.

So the Citizen/Subject argument really doesn't hold water.

If someone chooses to obey ridiculous, unjust laws, it's their right. I'll continue to buy what I want. I live in Chicago and have carried a concealed weapon for the past thirty years; even when it wasn't "legal."

The day I let some graft addicted socialist tell me what I can own is never.
 
Well, at some point, a cop is gonna point it out to you. Whatcha gonna do then?

If someone chooses to obey ridiculous, unjust laws, it's their right. I'll continue to buy what I want. I live in Chicago and have carried a concealed weapon for the past thirty years; even when it wasn't "legal."

The day I let some graft addicted socialist tell me what I can own is never.
 
Well, at some point, a cop is gonna point it out to you. Whatcha gonna do then?

Cross that bridge when I come to it. I never figured to spend my remaining years in a cell, but I'd hate myself if I gave in to tyranny. What are principles good for if we just talk about them?
 
I'm not sure how intentionally violating the law for three decades is "not giving in to tyranny . . . "

The "not giving in to tyranny" was meant as my planned refusal to surrender my weapons if the day comes that we are required by law to do so.
 
I watch the CBS morning propaganda just to get my juices flowing and the folks there are AMAZED at how fast NZ was able to "get a handle" on the guns in such a short time.....they wondered why it is so hard for our goverment to take such action......are these people for real!!!!

The gun grabbers have been going for our throats for years and this coming election will certainly have the liberals doing their usual dance.....we MUST be diligent folks.....this is going to get ugly.
 
I watch the CBS morning propaganda just to get my juices flowing and the folks there are AMAZED at how fast NZ was able to "get a handle" on the guns in such a short time.....they wondered why it is so hard for our goverment to take such action......are these people for real!!!!

The gun grabbers have been going for our throats for years and this coming election will certainly have the liberals doing their usual dance.....we MUST be diligent folks.....this is going to get ugly.

Ah... What most fail to recognise are the differences between NZ and the US.

Here gun ownership is a privilege . There is no right to firearms and absolutely no right to possess any weapon for self defense.

In the US firearms ownership is a right guaranteed by the Constitution.

It is easy to take away/modify a privilege but not so easy to take away a legal right.

Not that they'll stop trying.
 
Ah... What most fail to recognise are the differences between NZ and the US.

Here gun ownership is a privilege . There is no right to firearms and absolutely no right to possess any weapon for self defense.

In the US firearms ownership is a right guaranteed by the Constitution.

It is easy to take away/modify a privilege but not so easy to take away a legal right.

Not that they'll stop trying.

Kiwi Cop—are you a member of the Police Association in NZ? I read in my local paper this morning that the police union is one of the biggest proponents of this measure: "Chris Cahill, president of the Police Association, the union representing New Zealand's police officers, praised Ardern's plan, saying his group had been calling for such measures for years.

"This addresses the key concerns we have," he said. "It's hitting those military-style semi-automatics. It's exactly what we wanted.""
 
If a a tyrannical government is being forced on us here, I hope that our military will step in and stop it as they have done for so many other countries around the world. At that point, they would be our only hope.

Yeah, that'll happen.
The best you can hope for is that they'll sit on the sidelines.
There's a lot of tough talk behind keyboards on the internet, but when the time comes, and it's coming, most will open the door and hand over what's demanded.
Welcome to the EU...
 
Lots of people are members of organizations that espouse public positions that all of the members may not agree with . . .

Kiwi Cop—are you a member of the Police Association in NZ? I read in my local paper this morning that the police union is one of the biggest proponents of this measure: "Chris Cahill, president of the Police Association, the union representing New Zealand's police officers, praised Ardern's plan, saying his group had been calling for such measures for years.

"This addresses the key concerns we have," he said. "It's hitting those military-style semi-automatics. It's exactly what we wanted.""
 
New Zealanders will find that a police state doesn't have to be one of jack booted thugs. Your friendly smiling bobby combined with a lack of a Bill of Rights and incredible pressure to conform and ostracism of those who don't work just as well.
 
New Zealanders will find that a police state doesn't have to be one of jack booted thugs. Your friendly smiling bobby combined with a lack of a Bill of Rights and incredible pressure to conform and ostracism of those who don't work just as well.

Friendly Fascism. Bernard Gross wrote all about it in a book of the same name/title back in the early 80's. Read it then, and it is not only still relevant, it is happening all around us at this very moment.
As a point of interest, my wife and I were in Christchurch a few weeks back and stayed in a motel just a short ways up Deans Road from the Al Noor mosque.
 
Kiwi Cop—are you a member of the Police Association in NZ? I read in my local paper this morning that the police union is one of the biggest proponents of this measure: "Chris Cahill, president of the Police Association, the union representing New Zealand's police officers, praised Ardern's plan, saying his group had been calling for such measures for years.

"This addresses the key concerns we have," he said. "It's hitting those military-style semi-automatics. It's exactly what we wanted.""

Before I answer this once again I need to point out that unlike the US, in Kiwiland there is no right to firearms ownership.Like a drivers license it is considered a privilege. And legally there is no right to carry any weapon for self defense.

Yes, I am a member of the police association, it is required for every sworn cop below the rank of inspector (captain equivalent). Chris Cahill has been president of the association for only two years. He is predecessor was in the position for more than 20 and is now a government member of parliament. The two styles are very different.

I do not agree personally with every position Cahill takes. I do not believe that semi-automatics are the problem. The problem is those who used the loopholes to own them.

I have held an MSSA (semi-automatic) endorsement to my firearms licence since they were created in 1994. The guns of concern, which the Christchurch shooter used, have been modified with stock additions and reduced magazine capacity to be held on a standard license.

I have seen too many cases of licensed gun owners breaking the rules. Be it owning fully automatic guns on a collectors license, held on conditions they never be loaded with live ammo let alone fired, and then taking them to the back of a mates farm to fire full auto, to pistol shooters setting up a non approved range on their rural property for "practice" or taking their pistols hunting (pistols can only be held by club members and fired on approved ranges under the disciplines rules). The problem is everyone, including some rural cops, say 'he's okay, he's not the type of person we need to worry about". Actaully that is what was said about the club the shooter belonged to before he attacked the mosques.

Even pistol club members, who have the right to own and shoot pistols are not beyond bending the rules. We're supposed to participate in "club activities" no less than 12 times a year. In recent years that has been relaxed to "club avtivities" including turning up for a coffee and to chin wag on a weekend morning. It is all such a mish mash of things right now.

The modified semi-autos appeal to those who have a predilection to ignore the rules. I have long felt that the loophole should have been better closed way back in '94 and all owners required to comply with the same rules. Pity that an attempt to do so in 2010 was overruled by the court. Reduced security requirements have made them more susceptible to theft and it is these stolen guns in gang circulation that are a problem for all cops. Too many are being found. And too many used against cops. That is really what Cahill is concerned with, not the small game or target shooters.

Now those who do have a legitimate reason for using a semi auto and have complied with the rules will be punished for the actions of a deranged sociopath.

The really concerningbthing is that only a few weeks before the incident in Christchurch commentators were praising NZ's gun laws as some of the best in the world. Now those same commentators are saying they are lax and need to be tightened.

Currently I am waiting for the final legislation to be drafted. There will be some legal challenges but some will be made by those on the fringes, one in particularly threatening to invite the American NRA to take a challenge. Other challenges will be made on the grounds of devaluing some rather expensive collections. And club shooter like me may get a reprieve for competition shooting, although I can see some additional conditions to semi auto ownership being put in place to accomodate this.

Again, it is best if The NZ situation is not compared but to the US. The legal basis and rules are so different and really cannot be compared. And our societies are also different.

As many know I spent over a month in the US last year anD found a very polite society. The average person is very pleasant to speak to, uses the words "sir" and "ma'am" a lot and always wished us to "have a good day". We saw plenty of street people who were far from pushy. The average Kiwi and Aussie is more likely to tell you rudely to get lost instead of inviting you to have a good day. And refuse a street persons request for change or cigarettes and you are likely to end up on the end of a string of abuse.

Of course we stayed away from the New York's, Los Angeles's and cities like them so possibly met more constrained Americans in our holiday.

Apples and oranges.
 
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Sad but true, kiwi cop.

[The average Kiwi and Aussie is more likely to tell you rudely to get lost instead of inviting you to have a good day. And refuse a street persons request for change or cigarettes and you are likely to end up on the end of a string of abuse.]
 
Before I answer this once again I need to point out that unlike the US, in Kiwiland there is no right to firearms ownership.Like a drivers license it is considered a privilege. And legally there is no right to carry any weapon for self defense.

I don't know how strongly people view rights vs. privileges outside the U.S., but the position you are describing is uncomfortably close to how it is evolving here.

In theory, in the U.S., the Constitution does not grant any rights. It recognizes that humans have rights that the government is not empowered to abridge.

In practice, it seems very few people understand this and think the Bill of Rights grants those rights. Therefor the push by the banners to repeal the 2nd Amendment. They think that will make the right disappear, when it won't.

I don't believe that human rights stop at the U.S. border. Everyone has the right to arm and defend themselves where ever they live; it is unfortunate that so many places violate that right.
 
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