AR15 Pistol questions

[Wildman101010]

Bought a PSA 7 inch pistol and I am in love with it!!! It’s what I never knew I wanted in an A.R. 15. But some questions come to mind and Google is useless.

1) How does law enforcement know if it’s a legal pistol or an illegal one? The word pistol is not stamped on the lower so if you just make one how can they tell? Would they even question you or every time they run in to somebody with a pistol version do they call in the serial numbers?

2) I “think” I found out the answer to this but would like to verify that I can use multiple uppers, so I can go from an 11 inch or 10 inch or 7 inch barrel and still be legal correct?

3) Now the big one!!! Which by the way is what led me to asking question number one. Hoping I can. So I have a Colt LE 6920 with a ton of expensive upgrades to the lower. I was getting ready to transfer all of those parts, my Geissele trigger and others nice upfits when it hit me, why bother? Why not just unscrew the buffer tube and use the PSA pistol buffer tube and screw it into the Colt lower and start using that!!!!!

Yes, no???

 

[wpriest]

Why no

Is the Colt lower marked with the model number? If so using the Colt lower with a pistol upper is making a rifle into a pistol/short barreled rifle irrespective of the buffer tube setup. This is a big no no in the eyes of ATF. I’m not an attorney but this is what I believe to be true after reading the regulations before I built my first AR pistol. I’m sure others will answer.

 

[Rayfan87]

1. They don't know and unless the it's one sold originally as a rifle, they would have a hard time proving it.

2. Change uppers and barrels all you want, just be mindful of the OAL and barrel length.

3. Technically illegal, if it came from a the factory as a rifle and they only sold those lowers as completed rifles it would be fairly easy to prove.

 

[andy52]

Rayfan87 answered most of the questions. If the colt was originally purchased as rifle the 4473 will state that and you can't convert it to a pistol legally. All the ARs I own were built from scratch using stripped lowers. When you build from scratch your pretty much free to do as you wish because the 4473 will be listed as a "other" not rifle or pistol, you just have to stay under the legal length when building a pistol. You can however transfer any of the internal part from the colt to the PSA.

 

[s&wchad]

3. - You’ll find the answer here...

Can I lawfully make a rifle into a pistol without registering that firearm? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

 

[Wildman101010]

Wow!!! Thanks everyone!!! Wasn’t sure I would get any replies as early as it was much less as many as I did But I should add that’s just so ridiculous!!! A lower is a lower...

 

[BB57]

Once a lower is assembled as a rifle, it can never go back to being a pistol.

In other words, if you buy an AR pistol, then put a 16" barrel and a stock on it it's now a rifle, and can never legally be re-assembled as a pistol.

It's illegal, but it's also hard to enforce. Where do you get in trouble with that? If in the course of a search (usually for some other reason) law enforcement finds you have a single upper with both pistol and rifle/carbine length barrels. They'll make some very reasonable assumptions about how they've been assembled and you'll most likely be charged.

 

[03hemi]

Once a lower is assembled as a rifle, it can never go back to being a pistol.

In other words, if you buy an AR pistol, then put a 16" barrel and a stock on it it's now a rifle, and can never legally be re-assembled as a pistol.

It's illegal, but it's also hard to enforce. Where do you get in trouble with that? If in the course of a search (usually for some other reason) law enforcement finds you have a single upper with both pistol and rifle/carbine length barrels. They'll make some very reasonable assumptions about how they've been assembled and you'll most likely be charged.

Not necessarily true, you can have it reclassified as a pistol with the right form from what I've been told by people in the know. However, I have no personal experience doing this.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

Or get the federal tax stamp for a SBR (Short Barreled Rifle), then you can mix and match all you want! But at that point, that will always be a SBR and require federal transfer papers in your possession at all times.

Ivan

 

[Sistema1927]

I have two AR pistols, both made with Anderson stripped lowers that are marked "Pistol" and "Multi". Both wear 8.5" uppers, one in 5.56, the other in 300 AAC.

The lower markings mean nothing, since they transferred as "Other", but they might convince an ill informed LEO that they are legit. I have built several other ARs, and they always get built first a pistols, a fact that I record in my firearms spreadsheet.

I consider the 5.56 pistol to be nothing more than a range toy, but the Blackout pistol is actually practical in that barrel length. I do, however, have 300 Blackout identification bands around the magazine well and all mags that I use with it and never take both 5.56 and 300 AAC weapons or ammo to the range at the same time.

 

[Jessie]

3. - You’ll find the answer here...

Can I lawfully make a rifle into a pistol without registering that firearm? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

I read that and it says if you want to make an NFA firearm that you must jump through the tax loop, etc. to do so.
Maybe I’m wrong but you would NOT be making an NFA controlled firearm. You would be making an AR pistol which is not NFA controlled....right?
That one sentence seems to remove it from NFA territory
This would only apply if the stock was changed to pistol configuration.

 

[Wildman101010]

I consider the 5.56 pistol to be nothing more than a range toy

Lots of people think that but the vast majority that thought that have changed their mind over the years. The thing I could never wrap my brain around and been wanting to ask this for many years so you opened the door for the opportunity to ask, is there is absolutely no difference between a pistol and a SBR.

No one seems to have a problem with a short-barreled rifle with an 11 inch barrel but yet when it is in the pistol form they say it’s not practical and a toy? Never understood that. OK one has a stock and one doesn't but short of that they are identical and if SHTF they will all have stocks LOL.

But even so without a stock I don’t understand the thought process and hoping you can share some insight because what is wrong with a handgun that shoots 30 rounds of 5.56 which I will take absolutely ANY day over ANY handgun.

Can’t imagine a more perfect weapon for home defense I really can’t

 

[Rayfan87]

Once a lower is assembled as a rifle, it can never go back to being a pistol.

In other words, if you buy an AR pistol, then put a 16" barrel and a stock on it it's now a rifle, and can never legally be re-assembled as a pistol.

It's illegal, but it's also hard to enforce. Where do you get in trouble with that? If in the course of a search (usually for some other reason) law enforcement finds you have a single upper with both pistol and rifle/carbine length barrels. They'll make some very reasonable assumptions about how they've been assembled and you'll most likely be charged.

Don't forget the TC Contender case. Even SCOTUS agreed that if you make a pistol a rifle then you can make it back into a pistol. You just have to show that it was a pistol first. Also if you have all the parts to make both a pistol and a rifle then "constructive intent" goes out the window.

 

[ExRanger714]

To be on the safe side I ordered a dedicated PSA pistol lower by itself on one invoice and keep the paperwork handy when I'm toting my 10.5". I did put a blade style stabilizer on it.

 

[BB57]

I read that and it says if you want to make an NFA firearm that you must jump through the tax loop, etc. to do so.
Maybe I’m wrong but you would NOT be making an NFA controlled firearm. You would be making an AR pistol which is not NFA controlled....right?
That one sentence seems to remove it from NFA territory
This would only apply if the stock was changed to pistol configuration.

Here's a 10 1/2" AR pistol with a brace.

It has some advantages over an SBR:
- no tax stamp,
- no paperwork,
- no need to file any forms once a year to transport it to different states,
- no issues with states that do not allow SBRs, and
- I can carry it loaded as a "concealed handgun" in states that do not let you carry a loaded rifle, even an SBR, in a vehicle.

Functionally, it's essentially an SBR that lets me accurately engage targets that are well beyond normal pistol ranges, and it's significantly shorter than a 16" carbine.

*IF* I assemble it with a rifle stock rather than a brace, with a barrel shorter than 16", it would be an illegal, unregistered SBR.

*IF* I assemble it with a rifle stock and a 16" or greater barrel, it will now be a fully legal rifle.

*IF* I put a vertical foregrip on an AR pistol it is no longer a pistol but is instead an "any other weapon" and is illegal unless you have a tax stamp.

 

[DADoser]

*IF* I put a vertical foregrip on an AR pistol it is no longer a pistol but is instead an "any other weapon" and is illegal unless you have a tax stamp.

From what I'm seeing, as long as the overall length of the AR pistol was over 26", - not including the detachable compensator, muzzle brake, or flash hider - then a vertical foregrip was legal.

Angled foregrips seem to be ok, regardless.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. I just put a vertical foregrip on a Ruger 556 pistol with an overall length over 26".

 

[vegasgunhand]

A while back I was lucky enough to find a distributor that had obtained several Colt Defense M-4 lowers direct from the factory. Since they had never been built into rifles, I got two lowers and turned them into pistols with Colt factory 10.5 inch uppers, and sets of Colt lower parts. So I have a COLT AR pistol.

 

[CZU]

From what I'm seeing, as long as the overall length of the AR pistol was over 26", - not including the detachable compensator, muzzle brake, or flash hider - then a vertical foregrip was legal.

Angled foregrips seem to be ok, regardless.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. I just put a vertical foregrip on a Ruger 556 pistol with an overall length over 26".

Not allowed unless you pay the troll:
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/o...er-adding-vertical-fore-grip-handgun/download

 

[s&wchad]

Once a lower is assembled as a rifle, it can never go back to being a pistol.

In other words, if you buy an AR pistol, then put a 16" barrel and a stock on it it's now a rifle, and can never legally be re-assembled as a pistol.

You should read this:

Can I lawfully make a pistol into a rifle without registering that firearm? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

I read that and it says if you want to make an NFA firearm that you must jump through the tax loop, etc. to do so.
Maybe I’m wrong but you would NOT be making an NFA controlled firearm. You would be making an AR pistol which is not NFA controlled....right?
That one sentence seems to remove it from NFA territory
This would only apply if the stock was changed to pistol configuration.

The title of the ATF page and the first word of their answer is enough for me.

Can I lawfully make a rifle into a pistol without registering that firearm? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

 

[Jessie]

I understand...don’t poke the bear!