AR15 Pistol questions

[Sistema1927]

No If I transfer a lower as a rifle it is a rifle, not a pistol, unless you do the paperwork for an SBR. If someone under the age of 21 wants to purchase a stripped lower it MUST be sold as a rifle, if purchased from an FFL. From that time forward it is a rifle, and cannot be converted back and forth between a rifle/pistol. I discussed this with ATF today. Be Safe,

You are still wrong, and whoever you spoke with at the ATF is wrong.

A lower always transfers as an "Other", not as a pistol or a rifle. "Other" is, as you said, limited to 21 and above, but it is still not either a rifle or a pistol.

When you find yourself in a hole, quit digging.

 

[The_Truth]

No If I transfer a lower as a rifle it is a rifle, not a pistol, unless you do the paperwork for an SBR. If someone under the age of 21 wants to purchase a stripped lower it MUST be sold as a rifle, if purchased from an FFL. From that time forward it is a rifle, and cannot be converted back and forth between a rifle/pistol. I discussed this with ATF today. Be Safe,

Yeah, you are incorrect. If you transfer a stripped lower it is not legally speaking a rifle or a pistol yet until it has an upper attached to it. Doesn't matter what box you checked on your paperwork, and doesn't matter what an agent thinks, the law is the law and the law says it is not considered a rifle until there is a receiver with a 16" or longer barrel attached to it, unless of course the muzzle device is pinned and welded then the barrel itself can technically be shorter as long as the muzzle device is permanently attached and makes it 16" or longer.

You are more than welcome to post a cite to the applicable ATF guideline or law or statute that you think refutes this claim, but it doesn't exist.

You really needn't look any further than the definition of "Any Other Weapon" or "AOW."

The term "any other weapon" means any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive

What does "any other weapon" mean? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

A stripped receiver is not capable of discharging a shot through the energy of an explosive. Also:

Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore

 

[whataboutbob]

I bought a sig p556 several years ago because it was neat. But the truth was I couldn't shoot it worth a flip with any accuracy (have you ever tried to shoot a 6 1/2 lb pistol?); so, to me it wasn't good.I put a brace on it and it was much better.then the atf was going back and forth on the brace so I said the heck with it and got the form and paid the tax to make it a sbr and it's great now and I'm glad to have it.But If I had to do it over again I would just buy a rifle with as short of a barrel as possible and call it good

 

[vipermd]

You are still wrong, and whoever you spoke with at the ATF is wrong.A lower always transfers as an "Other", not as a pistol or a rifle. "Other" is, as you said, limited to 21 and above, but it is still not either a rifle or a pistol.When you find yourself in a hole, quit digging.

Not in a hole. A stripped lower is a "firearm", and transferred as an " other". When you add components it becomes a rifle or handgun. If you build it as a rifle it remains a rifle, and can not become a pistol. unfortunately there is not a single " phrase" that says ( no you can not change a stripped lower from pistol to rifle to pistol ). If you live in a state that register handguns, it would need to be registered as a handgun. I am waiting on email from ATF for a list of sections that will explain it better.
In the word of Tommy Lee Jone " I don't Care ", I only offered the information after reading the laws and discussing with ATF, to prevent someone from running afoul of the law. Would anyone know if it is a rifle or pistol lower?, not unless it is marked. For example a Colt LE 6920 is marked: Complete Colt LE6920 SOCOM Lower,U.S. Property Marked,Complete with Colt Lower Parts Kits,M4A1 Carbine.
I would not suggest trying to make a pistol out of this. So build whatever you want any way you want, but do not try to defend yourself in court, by saying: " Some guy said it was legal" Be Safe,

 

[Bullet Bob]

This thread gave me a headache.

 

[Thin Man]

This thread gave me a headache.

Firearms regulations have that effect on even the most informed of us.

 

[Sistema1927]

vipermd, Suffice it to say that your last post contradicted much of what you said earlier.

To get back to the original post that you commented on, and my response, IF that person was able to obtain Colt stripped receivers which had never been built as rifles, AND IF that person had the proper paper trail in order to document that fact, THEN they would be able to legally build it out as an AR pistol without fear of running afoul of the BATFE. (Please note the logical progression of the terms that I have written in CAPS.)

You contend that Colt never released lowers for sale that had not previously built as rifles. You might be correct, but it might also be that you are wrong.

At the same time, anyone who trusts the advice of anonymous strangers on the internet gets exactly what they paid for, absolutely nothing.

 

[vipermd]

Sistema1927:You are correct in the fact that I phrased it wrong for brevity and it came out *** backwards. If you look at ATF regs there is not a specific regulation that says: (" you can or can not transfer an AR from pistol to rifle back to pistol" ) I wish it did,it would make life easier. The problem is it is not that simple, since it start with a definition of a weapon- as someone stated above a stripped lower cannot fire a cartridge but it is still a registered weapon by law, then you move to definition of rifle vs pistol, then you start getting into NFA regulations, which adds a new of criteria, which I cannot take up ten pages to write. Move on to the fact that a lower was built for an M4 so the manufacturer would list it as a rifle receiver, even if it never had an upper on it. So Anderson list's receivers and pistol receivers so if you build an AR pistol, and someone wanted to check it would be listed as a pistol. If you take an unknown receiver and make an AR pistol out of it and therefore would register it as a pistol ( so you could "CCW"), you could not make it into a rifle, because it is registered as a pistol. I hope that makes more sense, sorry for the incorrect statement. Be Safe,

 

[Sistema1927]

Seeing as many of us live in states where neither pistols nor rifles require "registration", I am guessing that you are speaking from a state specific perspective.

The AR pistols that I built from stripped lowers can be converted back and forth between pistol and rifle configuration. In fact, I build all of my stripped lowers first as pistols in order to maintain this flexibility. They get a pistol buffer and a short upper, and I take a photo of them, print a copy, put it in a sealed envelope with a copy of the receipt for the lower, and mail it to myself. These sealed envelopes then get stored in my safe with these ARs. Over the top? Probably, but a pretty good chain of evidence should the need arise.

However, the Bushmaster Dissipator that I have had since before the 1994 ban is, and always will be, a rifle, and I cannot attach a sub-16" barrel to it without first going the SBR route.

 

[rws]

Uploaded at Snapagogo.com

 

[vipermd]

Uploaded at Snapagogo.com

Interesting, I will have to check out that section. Thank you For posting. BE Safe,

 

[Doc1500]

I purchased an aero precision AR pistol lower. It was received by the FFL from Aero precision and was registered as an AR pistol. I installed an SBA-3 collapsible pistol brace.
by law with this configuration I can switch to any lengths barrels that I please .
With a 20-inch upper it is still considered an AR pistol , because it's registered that way. If at this point I change out a pistol brace for a rifle stock, it is still a legally registered pistol although now in a rifle configuration. If at that moment with that configuration I decide to switch back to a less than 16 inch barrel upper, the rifle configuration now becomes a pistol configurations that is illegal because it now has a rifle stock. If at this point I switch out the rifle stock for the pistol brace it is now a legal AR pistol.
In conclusion if your AR is registered as a pistol it can be configured to a rifle legally, when it is reconfigured back into a pistol it must not have a rifle stock but must have a pistol brace.
If you get an SBR tax stamp that solves the problem, and you can make it whatever you want.

 

[Wildman101010]

Wow!!!! I opened a can of worms with my questions so thought I would sit back for a while and wait till everybody concluded fighting with everybody, to say, waited for the dust to settle! LOL.

Well from what I can conclude, bottom line is I CANNOT take my Smith & Wesson rifle lower, install the pistol buffer tube and spring from the PSA and use it as my new lower for the pistol???

Ya know, the more I research this the more I am convinced just how ridiculously moronic and stupendously stupid our government is and how the concept is actually so absurd it's hard to imagine it's real!!!

I don't believe I have ever come across something more utterly insane then I can have two IDENTICAL weapons but because I have a stock on one and not the other, I can spend 20 years in jail over it!!!!

Even more so profoundly ignorant is the fact that the entire purpose of the short-barreled law was so it couldn't be concealed and an AR 15 pistol is MORE EASILY CONCEALED WITHOUT A DAMN STOCK!!!

Ok ok ok, well if I am correct that I cannot use my Smith & Wesson lower than my next question comes to mind which I haven't really seen a direct answer yet but who would be able to tell?

I mean I'm rolling down the road and I have my Smith & Wesson lower with a pistol tube so I have an AR 15 pistol!!! Who would decide whether it's legal or not? Will the police see Smith and Wesson and know they don't make a pistol and contact the ATF and bring me off the jail???

 

[Wildman101010]

Another quick question that boggles my mind. Took apart all four of my A.R. 15's, three rifles and the pistol. Story why but as I started to reassemble them I noticed the buffer spring, ONE of them, is about 3/4 of an inch longer than the rest of them. Seeing as I have three rifles and one pistol and three identical length buffer springs except for one, my only conclusion is the longer buffer spring goes with the pistol which I would think it would be a shorter spring!!!! 7" barrel.