Original .357 Magnum Load for Reg. Magnums?

[AJ]

If the question has been asked before I humbly apologize in advance. But my question is: What was the original loading for the .357 Magnum "back in the day"? I would also surmise that, that is what the FBI used then also. Just curious and have to much time on my hands. Also to many slug, powder, primers and casings..........Ya, I know you can never have to many!

 

[MRH]

Interesting question. Powders have changed some; but I am trying to find a duplicate of the bullet that Phil Sharpe designed for it and do the same thing; with 2400 powder.

 

[Muley Gil]

Factory loads made by Winchester and Remington from the '60s and '70s used a soft lead semi-wad cutter bullet. Firing a 50 round box of these cartridges would result in the bore looking like a sewer pipe.

 

[AJ]

Factory loads made by Winchester and Remington from the '60s and '70s used a soft lead semi-wad cutter bullet. Firing a 50 round box of these cartridges would result in the bore looking like a sewer pipe.

Thanks, Jarhead. But I was looking for the loads from the 1930's.

 

[cowboy4evr]

From what I understand , and others may disagree, they used a swc very similar to the 150 gr swc mold sold by RCBS , 38-150 . The powder charge was 15.5 grs of Hercules 2400 . Some say the burn rate for 2400 has changed . I contacted Alliant , they assured me it had not . They couldn't still call it 2400 if changed . Instead it would have to be called 2300 or 2500 , according to Alliant . I hope this helps . Regards Paul

 

[6518John]

Amazing what's on this forum!

"I know in the November 1935 American Rifleman Elmer wrote that with 15.4 grains of 2400 and a 158 grain bullet he duplicated the factory load with a velocity of 1518 fps. I'm sure 2400 is better burning than in those days, and I wouldn't dream of using that listed load AND NEITHER SHOULD ANYONE ELSE! I can tell you that my .38-44 loads in my Outdoorsman are duplicating today's .357 loads and then some in .38 +P cases. "

.357 Magnum Factory Duplication Load

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

From what I understand , and others may disagree, they used a swc very similar to the 150 gr swc mold sold by RCBS , 38-150 . The powder charge was 15.5 grs of Hercules 2400 . Some say the burn rate for 2400 has changed . I contacted Alliant , they assured me it had not . They couldn't still call it 2400 if changed . Instead it would have to be called 2300 or 2500 , according to Alliant . I hope this helps . Regards Paul

You nailed it perfectly!

 

[Muley Gil]

Generally, the powders used by the ammo factories are not the exact powders that handloaders buy from their LGS. In the past, the ammo companies would also use solid test barrels, with no barrel/cylinder gap, when they were developing loads and publishing velocities.

 

[Univibe]

I wonder if these old hot factory loads didn't co ntain a bit of legend? Seems like I was reading that a box of original Norma 10mm 200 grain loads was found a d chronoed, and fell short.

 

[6518John]

In the past, the ammo companies would also use solid test barrels, with no barrel/cylinder gap, when they were developing loads and publishing velocities.

Weren't a lot of those test barrels 10, 12, 14 inches or longer too? I seem to recall reading one of the big ammo companies was reporting information on a handgun cartridge from some ridiculously long barrel—I want to say 20 inches...!!??

 

[rockquarry]

I believe the original .357 Magnum bullet was a 158-160 grain plain base semi-wadcutter cast from a Hensley & Gibbs mould, the #51, as designed by Phil Sharpe. Whether or not there is anyone marketing the original design today, I don't know. I've used a 4-cavity #51 for years. This bullet is also an excellent choice for the .38 Special.

I prefer it over the Elmer Keith-designed #358429 for either .357 Magnum or .38 Special.

 

[alwslate]

I think the high velocities quoted for the early .357 mag loads were what
could be expected from revolvers with 8 3/8" barrels. I think "back in the
day" the .357 mag was promoted as a hunting round for big game. Today
it's supposed to be more of a SD round out of J frame revolvers. Quite a
difference.

 

[Art Doc]

Unless you have a box 1930s ammo and a chronograph you'll never know for certain. I suspect that the load did not change from the 30s to the 60s and I recall as a Youth factory 357 consisted of a 158 grain lead semi-wadcutter (or Kieth type as inspired by Sharpe) at a claimed 1510 fps. May have been an 8" pressure barrel, may have been a long barrel revolver. May have been an estimate. No idea if accurate because I don't have a box of old ammo to test.

 

[Doc44]

In March 1935, D. B. Wesson wrote the new S&W ".357" Magnum has a velocity of 1512 fps and 802 foot pounds of energy using a 158 grain Sharpe-type bullet.

Bill

 

[Biggfoot44]

The original load was also notorious for leading the bbl , which was a strong motivator for serious users to handload using hard cast and/ or gas checks . On the flipside , being so soft , contemporary accounts reported expansion at least some of the time .

IIRC , the stories/ legands were that the factory bullet was closely modeled upon the Sharpe design , as it had shorter bearing surface, hence lower pressure, hence higher velocity for bragging purposes .

 

[AJ]

I may have had the answer in my reloading library all along. I have my Father's copy of Phillip Sharpe's "COMPLETE GUIDE TO HANDLOADING". In the book he writes about his help in developing the .357 Magnum with Col. D.B.Wesson. He states that "Developing the full power load is a major problem. Essentially the factories use a special non-canister grade of Hercules #2400, not available to handloaders. The obvious step is Standard #2400."
I look at his reloading table and it only gives one bullet weight for the #2400 powder and that is a 146 grain. The charge can be from 12 to 16 grains, which gives from 1340 fps to 1655 fps. The chamber pressures are from 21,000 to 35,000.
I guess having, keeping and looking at old reference books can come in handy.
Thanks to all who responded to the thread.

AJ

 

[tjpopkin]

Interesting question. Powders have changed some; but I am trying to find a duplicate of the bullet that Phil Sharpe designed for it and do the same thing; with 2400 powder.

;

MY ACCURACY and stopping power is with 15.0 gr. 2400 and 125gr. hp.

 

[Art Doc]

I know that using 2400 I got to 1725 fps with a 125 jhp clocked from a 5" M27. Lots of muzzle flash. Backed off a bit to 1625 and it was much more civilized.

 

[rockquarry]

I no longer load any magnum handgun cartridge but did for more than forty years. With the H&G #51 and 12 grains #2400 (my favorite .357 load) muzzle velocity was from 1100 to under 1200 fps, depending on which 6" gun I used for chronographing. This was a reasonably accurate load and not unpleasant to shoot.

 

[AJ]

Will be using in a 3.5 inch M27-2. Normally I just shoot special loads. Just wanted to try to duplicate the original .357 Magnum loads.