Red Flag Laws
- Thread starter delcrossv
- Start date
We know for certain there has been at least one that ended badly - the case referenced earlier in this post. Admittedly the guy killed in the process of the ERPO being served screwed up by not complying, but isn't that the common sentiment and what so many have said, that they won't stand by passively and let the government take their guns? "From my cold dead hands" and MOLON LABE and all that?
Abuse and false accusations to get a PO have been a "thing" in divorces for decades. ERPOs are just the next little step in those cases.
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No, it isn't a new law everywhere yet. ERPOs regarding guns are a new development and are being passed state by state. There are still a lot of states that don't have them yet. When did Missouri pass one? Like I said, the references I'm finding on the 'net say it failed to pass in March 2018. Here is the most current list of states WITH red flag laws that I have been able to find. I don't see Missouri on the list
What states have red flag gun laws?
As for abuse of these laws, anybody who believes they won't be abused and weaponized is being incredibly naive. In addition to the earlier referenced case, here are a couple of links to a little additional reading
Hundreds Of Firearms Confiscated Under Florida's 'Red Flag Law'
Red Flag Laws | The Leading Glock Forum and Community - GlockTalk.com
Exclusive: New York Judge Issues Red Flag-Style Gun Confiscation a Full Month Before the Law Takes Effect - GunsAmerica Digest
Florida’s new ‘red flag’ law leads to forced confiscation of weapons – GOPUSA
I'll add more as I find them
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rednichols
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I reckon we should get behind the President's calling out of first person shooter games like 'Call of Duty'. These kinds of things feed directly into a 'mental illness' that includes thinking of real humans as objects instead; and I do think that's the kind of mental illness being referenced there.
My local paper called this one out in the aftermath of the New Zealand murders, so about time 'someone' (in this case, the President, and the Lt. Governor of Texas) made a point that guns aren't new, and evil isn't new -- but what's new is video games that teach young people to kill strangers, randomly.
Dave Grossman, a retired Army Lt. Colonel and now college professor I think at Arkansas State, has done some extensive research in this area. I’ve been to his seminar and I’ve read “On Killing,” his book about it. The Colonel and I disagree on several points, but the violent video game research is hard to argue with. . .
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My bad. It's a new law everywhere it's now a law. That means that the enforcement and litigation is still in its infancy everywhere it's now a law. . . .
(edited, straying from second amendment forum purpose)
(edited, straying from second amendment forum purpose)
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To say that “shooter” video games and violent films are not somehow involved in these “young-man” shooting is to be disingenuous and naive. How many of us, in our professional life, have taken a training course where video gaming or films were used as a training device? I know I have both for technical training as well as cultural type diversity training. If video gaming and films can be used to teach us the “right” things to do, they can also be used to teach us the Wrong things to do.
Red flag laws are here to stay, and more are coming. Yes there are times when some think they are abused. The first time ours was used here, I thought and still think it was abused...by the judge that issued the order. He issued an order to remove guns that were properly stored because a nephew that did not live in the house told a school mate he was going to get one of the uncles guns and shoot up the school, which he clearly could not have done. But then there's the other extreme: my daughter a State Trooper has had to confiscate guns from people that she said were complete lunatics. In theory I don't think these laws are the worst thing that could happen to us. Rather than just let them happen and complain about it, we should actively fight to get the best deal we can get, insure safeguards and affordable due process, because like it or not they are coming. As for the use of these laws ending badly, would they have ended badly if the person on the receiving end didn't...act badly? Probably not. If someone wants to take the old slogan "I will give up my guns when they pry my cold dead fingers from around it" literally, then my reply to that person would be R.I.P. Going for a gun when the police knock at your door is no less idiotic than using one to hold up a liquor store. With the exception of a false accusation, avoiding the use of a red flag law is pretty easy...act responsibly, don't be a knucklehead, control your temper.
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Recusant
Member
For years school personnel were hesitate to report suspected child abuse for fear of law suits. As a result most states enacted laws that shielded school personnel if referrals to CPS were made in "good faith". It stands to reason that states will include similar language when enacting red flag laws.
You are probably right - there is certainly the possibility that those writing the laws will lean towards including language that could protect those who file false, baseless, or malicious claims on the basis that they don't want to discourage someone from making a valid report.
However, what that doesn't take into account is that there is a big difference between a school staff member who has no personal relationship with, or animosity towards, the parents of a child in their class, and a vindictive spouse or relative or even housemate (in some states anyone who lives or has lived in the house where the guns are has standing to file an ERPO) who has a contentious relationship with someone who also happens to own guns.
The two situations are not even remotely the same, though proponents of ERPO laws may try to portray them as being similar.
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With respect, there is no need for further legislation to "control" the legal ownership and use of firearms. The COTUS does a marvelous job of speaking to this matter. The vast majority of agenda driven statues, ordinances, laws, are superfluous. There is a need for legislation to be passed that will force those who make irresponsible accusations to shoulder full responsibility, financial and otherwise, for their actions. That might require more people to enforce this legislation. Sincerely. bruce.
red flag law...aka.. angry ex or angry ex family law. How about adding the little clause that after the person is found innocent the person blowing the 'whistle' has mandatory fine or penalty. Lets keep things balanced.
How about a minimum of 20 years without parole, or life if the person is somehow killed in the process of or effects of the order.
Often the case, but not always. And there lies the problem with these laws that are currently to broadly written. They don't work for the cases they would be beneficial for, screwed up kids that are protected by HIPA and records that go away when turning 18. These mass shooters are deranged individuals, shielded from being institutionalized by the Civil Liberties Union, and HIPA prevents anyone from knowing how screwed up they actually are...so red flag laws don't apply to them.
OP
jag312
Member
The big problem I have with red flag laws are people using it as a form of harassment. My son's mother used to call Internal Affairs with wild accusations against me, just to harass me. A red flag law would be just one more way of harassing me. There must be criminal charges against people using the law as an instrument of harassment.
Why were the Police at his door in the first place? Someone report him as a Red Flag. If there was not the "new Red Flag Law" then it would not have happened.
Sure he may have reacted in the wrong way, just put you hands up and pray you don't get shot in your home.
"Police continue to investigate the shooting. At this time it’s not clear who called police to alert them about Willis."
To bad they didn't have the law in place to take "Snochia" gun who actually killed people.
"Snochia Moseley, 26, a temporary Rite Aid employee who had been diagnosed with schizophrenia, opened fire on six people. Three were killed before she turned the gun on herself, ending her life.
Moseley had allegedly shown signs of mental illness and has struggled with her sexual identity. She was not truthful on her application to purchase a gun about her mental health issues."
Our Governor has called for lawmakers to enact his 17 point plan with his main bullet point being SPOs.
Governor calls for gun sale background checks, red-flag law after Dayton shooting
Governor calls for gun sale background checks, red-flag law after Dayton shooting
OP
Time for Ohioans to start calling their reps. Send them the link to Kopel's testimony and demand that your due process rights be respected. Same with balancing the rights of the gun owner with that of the person making the accusation.
I can't believe that the cops in Maryland can't figure out who gave them the tip.
Old TexMex
Member
Why not just deal with mental illness instead of shuffling the issue off onto gun ownership? Any time a person is deemed “mentally unstable and a threat to themselves and others” all their Constitutional rights are suspended anyway.
How about getting to the bottom of the reason for this instability noted in young people? Because we can’t.
Call me crazy,be sure and don’t talk to me about it, just call a government office.
How about getting to the bottom of the reason for this instability noted in young people? Because we can’t.
Call me crazy,be sure and don’t talk to me about it, just call a government office.
