Now I know why there is an opiod epidemic

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Word is, just from what I've been told by others of course, that they might
be worth more as barter goods than their cash value

Maybe so,but then I would need a shot of penicillin in the butt Or so I've been told

 

[Rustyt1953]

Thank goodness for AETNA.

 

[Watchdog]

I asked her why she kept getting them if she wasn't taking them and she said that the first time she used it,she didn't like the way they made her feel so she just didn't take them. She said she told the other doctors but they still called in the scripts'. Three different doctors, Three different scripts for someone who doesn't want them-and people wonder why everyone is hooked on these things.

If someone doesn't want whatever it is a doctor prescribes, but he or she still prescribes it, then just don't pick up the Rx from the pharmacy. You won't be charged for it. I'm not an attorney, but there's no law I'm aware of that requires you to pay for and take a medicine you don't want.

If I get pulled over taking these back to the pharmacy for disposal and am found with 53 and a half hydrocodone pills in bottles with someone else's name on them, I'm going to jail with a felony drug charge.

Don't bend yourself into a pretzel shape agonizing over this...just flush 'em down the toilet. You aren't gonna pollute the water supply with a few pills, or if you're on a septic system, you aren't gonna kill the grass. Whatever's in your septic tank will quickly neutralize that little bit of dope.

Better yet, throw 'em in the bayou, let the nutria have 'em.

Just keep it simple.

 

[Watchdog]

I don't understand why people get addicted to the stuff. Maybe taken in much larger doses it proves a highly enjoyable high?

Of course it does. Opioids are a narcotic. Like opium or heroin. If someone takes enough hydrocodone or oxy or whatever, they'll get high. Or it'll kill 'em, one of the two. Take too much, and the brain will stop sending out that signal to your lungs to keep working and your heart to keep beating...it's the oral equivalent of lethal injection.

But, and per my post 8 above, I don't get why anyone would get addicted. Is it because, for some people without the pills, the pain, whatever its origin, is chronic? I.e, never goes away without the pills?

That's pretty much true, but let's don't confuse "addiction" with "dependency".

For me, addiction is when someone wants the drug because it gives them a high, a sense of euphoria. They're addicted to that high because they can't deal with the real world. And with opioids, the body develops a tolerance for them, so the addict needs more and more of the stuff to get the same results. This is one of the reasons there's so much crime associated with addiction.

There are people who need the drug simply to function in a relatively pain-free manner. "Dependency" equates with "need". Chronic pain is serious pain. Chances are, it's never gonna go away. The patient depends on the medication to make it through the day, whether it's the workday or just a day in their life. They don't take it to get high. It isn't "fun" for them. They take it just to maintain some degree of normalcy, or functionality. If it weren't for pain management drugs, some people couldn't even go to the grocery store, or walk next door to visit a neighbor.

Chronic pain doesn't affect only the part of the body that hurts. A person in constant pain is a diminished person. Chronic pain affects your blood pressure, your heart rate, and your stress level. It's also extremely depressing at times, and affects the way you relate to and deal with people. You might be the nicest person anyone could know, but chronic pain can transform you into a complete jerk (that's a polite term used in order to comply with forum rules). People have killed themselves because they can't deal with the pain, and they've killed other people because they're in the grip of pain. That's a fact.

I'm personally sick of hearing about the "opioid crisis" or the "opioid epidemic". And people suing doctors and pharmacy companies for manufacturing and prescribing the products is ridiculous as far as I'm concerned.

The real addicts...let's not mince words here...the junkies have ruined legitimate pain management for regular people...just as mass killers are ruining gun ownership for people like us. People who need pain management drugs now have to jump through government mandated hoops (federal and state) to get the relief they need. In my state, there's a database that shows who gets what drugs, the dosage, and how often they get it. I'm not joking. A pain management doctor showed me the part of it that relates to me...and sure enough, there I am in bright white letters on the computer screen...name, DL number, address, etc., etc. I have to show I.D. to pick up certain drugs. Seriously, the DEA monitors this stuff.

As my late father would've said, "Beats all I ever seen."

 

[Jack Flash]

Back in my LE days, most all Rx opioids went for a dollar a mg. on the street.
ETA:
A 120 count of 40 mg. oxycontin ER (aka; hillbilly heroin) sold on the street would make for a nice monthly subsidy to most anyone's income.

My wife works in health care. She was part of a Visiting Physicians / Nurses Team that would go to homes where someone was too sick / old / frail to make it to a doctor's office. These patients often had a caretaker as they didn't have the mental or physical ability to care for themselves.

One place they went they noticed the "caretaker" was constantly requesting more opioids for the elderly patient because "she is in such terrible pain all the time." This was a little suspicious because the elderly lady didn't seem to be in pain when they were there. So eventually they drug tested her and found NO TRACE WHATSOEVER of opioids in her system.

Naturally this was reported to the doctor who cancelled her opioid scripts. A couple of days later, the "caretaker" showed up at the office SCREAMING. She demanded the scripts be reinstated. The office manager kicked her out and told her if she came back they would have her arrested. She was reported to the state and was disqualified as a caretaker.

I surmise from the quoted post that the "caretaker" got used to the few thousand a month extra income and didn't want to lose it. Or had been taking the pills herself. Or both.

 

[A10]

Damn we are a bunch of old guys in pain here....me too btw. 5-325s on a two per day prescription. Back and neck surgeery with a bunch of fused vertebrae. I dont take them much, that 30 day script will last a year or so. Still when you need it you need it. Chronic pain is a bitch......

 

[oink]

I've used the oxys and was glad I had them in the past when I had some kidney stone attacks. On the first attack where I realized it wasn't my bad back but stones I passed out at work from the pain. On one attack the pills weren't doing it and I ended up in the ER where they put something in an IV that left me with numb lips and not caring that I was in pain. Thankfully I haven't had kidney stones for about 8 years. But for stones I'll take those pills and I have a few badly expired pills I keep just in case I get stones again.

Other than that I hate the things. They give me insomnia. They will actually make me sleepy and I go to sleep but I wake up shortly after and can't go back to sleep. They give me skin itches and worst of all they stop my plumbing from working. I don't see how people take them on a regular basis. I need to take a dump sometime.

I did have one incident when I wished I had more. The day after I had cancer surgery at Mayo Jacksonville my wife drove me home. They didn't give me near enough meds for the ride home. I was in bad shape before we made it home. Later on a follow up I complained to the Doc about the insufficient meds he says, "What, you drove home?" No one told us I was supposed to hang out in a local hotel for a few days. That was a bad ride.

I've had dentists and ENTs give me Oxys a number of times. I've discovered that if I can I'll talk them into a few Valiums instead. Those don't have the bad side effects and I can just sleep through the pain.

My wife messed up her back a couple of years ago. It essentially made her bed ridden. Doctor was real stingy with the meds which left her in horrible pain. Doctor decided to do surgery but surgery was delayed when she showed some EKG irregularity on the surgery clearance exam. The doctor was still stingy on the meds. Finally she was cleared for surgery. After the surgery, which was a success, I complained to the doctor about the insufficient pain management. His only comment was "Yeah, her spine was worse than I thought it was." She still has leg nueropathy from her spinal cord being pressed on for so long. They later decided her problematic EKG was due to the pain. It was horrible seeing her suffer like that.

On another incident she had a very bad fungal eye infection. That eye doctor was giving her oxy in response to her pain which was causing her to throw up. But unfortunately the meds weren't helping much. She saw her Primary (GP) on another issue and described he predicament. He gave her a script for one of the Valium type drugs. surprisingly that was an instant relief to much of her pain. Unfortunately she did lose a lot of sight from the affected eye.

All of that to say it seems they readily give them out when they aren't needed but are super stingy with them when they are really needed.

 

[jag312]

.... they recommend pouring the pills in "something disgusting," like used cat litter, to discourage anyone from digging them out of your garbage.

From some of the gutter hypes I have known, they would not hesitate from digging the pills out of used cat litter. They would be willing to dig them out of the feces on a San Francisco sidewalk. You can't imagine what the lowest level of drug user will do for their next fix.

 

[jack the toad]

People who need pain management drugs now have to jump through government mandated hoops (federal and state) to get the relief they need. In my state, there's a database that shows who gets what drugs, the dosage, and how often they get it. I'm not joking. A pain management doctor showed me the part of it that relates to me...and sure enough, there I am in bright white letters on the computer screen...name, DL number, address, etc., etc. I have to show I.D. to pick up certain drugs. Seriously, the DEA monitors this stuff.

To my knowledge, every state has or will have it. In Okla. it's referred to as PMP (Prescription Monitoring Program) and is a database for doctors, pharmacists and LE to see who is getting what and where. Also monitors "pill doctors", Dr. shoppers, etc. The responsible legit med users are made to jump through same hoops as illegal addicts, sellers, etc.
ETA:
Ephedrine, pseudo-ephedrine users now have their own registry. It used to fall under PMP for narcotics but now is separate database for pharmacists.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

To my knowledge, every state has or will have it. In Okla. it's referred to as PMP (Prescription Monitoring Program) and is a database for doctors, pharmacists and LE to see who is getting what and where. Also monitors "pill doctors", Dr. shoppers, etc. The responsible legit med users are made to jump through same hoops as illegal addicts, sellers, etc.

Well we've seen THAT before Wonder if it will work as well as universal background checks, red flag laws or plugging the gunshow "loophole"

 

[Watchdog]

Well we've seen THAT before Wonder if it will work as well as universal background checks, red flag laws or plugging the gunshow "loophole"

It's already working, and it isn't going to change. The patient jumps through the hoops, shows I.D., takes a drug test now and then, or they don't get the drugs. Unless they walk into their local CVS or whatever with a gun and steal the stuff.

 

[Wise_A]

If you don't want to make the trip, they recommend pouring the pills in "something disgusting," like used cat litter, to discourage anyone from digging them out of your garbage.

That won't even slow down a true addict.

 

[rubiranch]

When my dad passed away he had 89 oxycontins and another prescription for another 30 that he hadn't yet filled.

He told us he took the first one and didn't like the effects it had on him so he never took any more.

Not sure why he kept filling the other prescriptions.

Some times I just don't think the elderly understand things the way we do.

Take the unused pills to the local police department to dispose of them.

 

[Jack Flash]

My Dad died after a long bout with cancer. Right after he passed, I was going through his meds and found an unopened container of morphine. Hospice had been with our family all the way through his illness so I called them to ask what to do with it. I thought since it was unopened I could take it back to the pharmacy or maybe turn it in to Hospice and they could give it to someone who really needed it.

Hospice told me that since it had been outside proper custody it was considered compromised and therefore to just flush it down the toilet. I have to admit that it crossed my mind to speculate what the street value of an unopened container of pharmaceutical-grade morphine would be. I'll never know because Hospice had been so great to our family I couldn't imagine betraying their trust. (Besides of course I don't want to break the law!) But mainly it seemed like a waste to just dump it when there are people who are suffering and legitimately needed this drug. Well, they said flush it so down the toilet it went.

 

[GaryS]

It's an odd problem. It seems that currently doctors are under treating acute pain and over treating chronic pain.

A lot of that is tied to "patient satisfaction" surveys which place a huge emphasis on pain control. If doctors get poor satisfaction scores, then their reimbursement goes down. That's especially true for doctors that see a lot of Medicare patients as Obamacare tied reimbursement to "quality patient care." The problem becomes one of defining quality patient care and somehow pain control was high on the list.

It's a complex problem, but people want easy solutions.

In EMS, on one hand we are pressed to provide adequate pain management. On the other hand, we are pressed not to overuse opioids The result is some bizarre protocols and medication options.

Around here, a lot of police and some fire stations have drug disposal drop boxes in the lobby. If that's an option, it's a good way to dispose of things.

As to UTIs, they are a leading cause of Sepsis and death among the elderly. "Waiting to long" is a leading cause of people becoming Septic. It's worse among the elderly and is in fact the leading cause of in hospital death among them.

My mom had some issues so I am up here in the far nawth (Natchitoches) for a few days making sure everything i OK. (it is-UTI infection that she waited too long to go to the doctor for) This really is something my sister or my wife is better off handling but sister can't get away till this weekend and my wife had a trial and "it's YOUR mom-I took care of mine-it's your turn" Well, I am now an expert on UTI's
SO back to the topic at hand.
Going through her pills to make a prescription list and came across three(3) bottles of Hydrocodone. First bottle was for her foot-scrip on the bottle was for 10 pills-there were 8.5 left. Next bottle was when she has her back problems. 15 on the label with 15 left.Last bottle was she she had extensive dental work done.30 listed and 30 still in the bottle.
I asked her why she kept getting them if she wasn't taking them and she said that the first time she used it,she didn't like the way they made her feel so she just didn't take them. She said she told the other doctors but they still called in the scripts'. Three different doctors, Three different scripts for someone who doesn't want them-and people wonder why everyone is hooked on these things.
If I get pulled over taking these back to the pharmacy for disposal and am found with 53 and a half hydrocodone pills in bottles with someone else's name on them, I'm going to jail with a felony drug charge.
BTW what are these things going for on the street these days, they are 5-325's......just wondering

 

[Chubbo]

No truly successful entrepreneur will willingly remove their hand from your pocket.

 

[Watchdog]

It's an odd problem. It seems that currently doctors are under treating acute pain and over treating chronic pain.

Well, that's your opinion, and you're certainly welcome to it. On the other hand, I certainly wouldn't tell someone who's suffered for years from chronic pain that they're being overtreated. Or if I did, I'd make sure I wasn't standing within punching distance of them when I said it.

Just as you say there's a problem in defining "quality care", there's also the problem of defining "overtreatment". What might be overtreatment for me might be just-getting-by-treatment for you. Or vice versa.

And who should do the defining, who's better qualified to assess proper quality care for an individual? The patient's primary care physician, pain management doctor, or surgeon? Or some faceless bureaucrat sitting behind a computer in their little cubbyhole at an unknown government agency? Guess which one gets my vote?

A complex problem for sure, but treatment decisions should be the purview of the medical profession, not a federal or state government agency or an insurance company whose primary goal is profit.

 

[LVSteve]

Then there clowns like this "pill mill" doctor in WV. His type are leading to supply issues for people who need pain meds.

Pill mill doctor facing life in prison over opioid drug distribution ring | KSNV

 

[pmosley]

The next epidemic will be some legal form of amphetamine - small towns that once had "pain clinics" are now being overrun with "weight loss" clinics -

In my experience, those who want to alter their mental state, will - legally or illegally.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jack the toad]

I'm willing to bet that I'm not the only one that gets "offers" via email, phone, fax, etc. to purchase scheduled meds. I once talked with a guy that caller ID just showed Jamaica, about buying hydrocodone. I asked about that med needing to be prescribed by a doctor and he transferred me to one. He also had heavy Jamaican accent and said he was a doctor and asked what I needed and for what. I told him my back hurt and he said no problem, send money and we'll send 30 day supply of meds which fedex will deliver to my door. Price was like $95.
Don't know whether a scam or if I'd get the pills but I think it's hard to stop those off-shore type sales. If in fact that's what it was...