Which Martial Arts to Learn?

[OldSarge21]

Cha Ching Pow

 

[CH4]

One of my sergeants was a 2nd BB in Tae Kwan Do. Saw him get his *** handed to him on more than one occasion. Unless the fight was choreographed, he was useless. He didn't want anything to do with Charlie, the aforementioned 6th degree.

 

[Kurusu]

There is a very important thing in hand to hand self-defense. It's called "fighting attitude" *. If you have it, you'll succeed with the bare basics of almost any martial arts. If you don't "have it"...

Just try to make yourself invisible. It works 80% of the time.


Edit. * Not ever to be confused with "out looking for trouble".

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Cha Ching Pow

I had that for lunch today.

 

[Kurusu]

I had that for lunch today.

Your bowels will be in shreds tomorrow.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

I took two different martial arts courses for what I guess amounted to 20 years, more or less. One was "8 martial arts taught as one" and called Chung Moo Doe ("doe" just means "way") and later Ji Mu Do and the other mixed a number of such arts also but didn't specifically say that in the same way and it was called Wujido. There were a lot of similarities. Mostly, it was Kung Fu with an assortment of hopkido/aikido, tai chi, taekwando mixed in, etc.


Here see for yourself:

http://www.chungmoodoe.com/

CHUNG MOO DOE®
The CHONG SU NIM "IRON" KIM Style

(C) Chung Moo Doe 2015

Learn Tai Chi and Kung Fu Online

Copyright © 2014 Wujido Institute

You can find positive and negative things on line about both. And about every other school of martial arts. Krav maga, muy thai and associated kickboxing from Latin America or Asia are probably the arts giving you the most bang for your buck in self defense techniques.

If you have allowed yourself to become a gunfighter, meaning you have the correct mindset to fight with a firearm, then you are mentally ready to take one of these self defense/martial arts courses. But they require constant practice, sometimes athletic skill, and if the school uses "katas" or other "forms" (maybe some don't; beats me!) you need to be very disciplined in practicing these forms. But they are boring even if they contain fighting techniques. GREAT EXERCISE! I was pretty doggone fit for awhile. But I admit boredom and not being super inclined to practice the Wujido forms as I grew older. The Ji Mu Do forms came at a younger age and I got pretty good at some of those. Whether any of it was useful in a hand to hand fight is a whole other discussion.

 

[Wise_A]

Are you in shape? If not, your money/time will be better spent there, by a thousandfold.

If you are in shape, I would get on Google and ask Mountain Guerrilla, because the man is insane.

Shivworks gets high marks. I would go to that before I spent every other Wednesday night at the strip mall, rolling around on a plastic mat.

 

[snubbyfan]

Here ya go. First lesson free....
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fULNUr0rvEc[/ame]

 

[Mister X]

Shivworks gets high marks. I would go to that before I spent every other Wednesday night at the strip mall, rolling around on a plastic mat.

If talking close-quarter shooting, I would mostly agree as it being a starting point, but OP said he's looking into an effective martial art/H2H self-defense system and shivworks is pretty mediocre there. Plus a 2 day course costing hundreds of dollars is next to worthless except for gun guys wanting to fill out their training resumes.

 

[Mr.Harry]

Whatever that stuff Steven Segal was trained in!

Ai keido? Hop Keido? Something like that.

Had a friend a long time ago who got into it. Seemed very defensively strategized, as well as destructive to the aggressor - relying more on utilizing their aggressive energies to their demise. Not so much about smashing bricks or breaking boards or flying reverse head kicks. More about turning an attack inside out and ending it really quickly with limb breaks.

 

[Kanewpadle]

I studied traditional Okinawan karate for several years. I know enough to take care of myself but have no illusions of winning a fight with only that.

Age has a lot to do with it. With some martial arts you must be quick enough and have above average balance to protect yourself. You must also have the core strength necessary to be effective.

Choose wisely based on your age and conditioning.

 

[Ziggy2525]

After I became disabled, I started looking for some instruction in the defensive use of a staph (don't know how to really spell it, but use of a defensive stick). My legs are toast, and I have one, so running is not an option. I almost always carry my cane, so I figured that I should learn how to use it to my advantage.

None of the martial arts instructors I knew or worked with could point me to a reputable instructor. I have contacted a number of martial arts studios within about 25 miles, just getting the same response, "... sorry, we can't help you ..." Sadly, I have given up that quest. I don't know if the folks I approached didn't want to instruct someone that was disabled, didn't want to deal with someone that knew what they wanted, or what!

I wish the OP good luck in his quest!

That's an interesting question about staff's/canes. I did a quick google search and came across this guy Mark Shuey. Not sure if it's what you're looking for. He makes/sells self defense canes. Also has a self defense "program." Looks like from his website he has an affiliate school in Hillsdale, NJ.

(Link should take you to the "schools" page)
Schools/Instructors : Cane Masters Custom Canes for Self Defense and Fitness, Best Custom Canes and Self Defense Systems

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Moo Goo Gai Pan has a long history and has always been my go to.
I'm 63 and I think martial arts training would be a waste of time for me as in the end I would be a 63 year old man with a certificate and some fancy jammies with a belt of some color. Plus the people around here that I would likely get into a tussle with don't know martial arts and thus use knives and guns. Plus #2 they are more likely than not gonna shoot you from a moving car or catch you in a place where you are ot gonna be able to kung fu them unless you get out of the car/ I therefore resort to the time honored choice of grumpy old guys everywhere. guns, sticks, knives, baseball bats or large sticks. You get an old guy hopping around screaming artfully chosen obscenities at you and waiving a big stick and you'll think twice about screwing with him

 

[geeollie]

Almost everything mentioned above will work when you can say, "OK come at me."

Almost everything designed to be done standing up will fail when you are not able to say, "OK come at me."

A decent high school wrestler can defeat much of the above once it goes to the ground......Brazilian or Gracie Jiujitsu teaches how to go to ground and what to do there.

 

[Protected One]

I've decided this coming year I want to start taking classes in martial arts but am not sure where to start. There are so many different kinds in my area ... Karate, Kung Fu, Judo, Kenpo, Taekwondo, Kickboxing, etc. I don't care to learn how to do flips and break boards. I just want to be trained in ways I can defend myself with my hands and feet should the situation ever arise. Is there a martial art that is more hands and method based and less about showmanship or competition? Any advice is appreciated, thanks.

Keeping your stated purpose in mind, I would STRONGLY recommend you focus on Krav Maga. It is not considered a martial art, but rather a fighting science, focused on exactly what you said you want to learn.

There are many arts to choose from, but most are simply that - arts, and most likely inappropriate for your purposes. Tae Kwon Do for example is about 90% kicking, which in a "street fight" is very impractical (though I have used it against untrained bullies on one occasion). Jui jitsu is very good, but the conditioning and training are more strenuous and physically demanding, and for people of a "certain age" becomes an obstacle to regular training. Aikido, again, involves learning tumbles and falling...things that might be a danger to older learners. Kung-Fu is a thing of beauty, but not advised for self-defense. I could go on about others but suffice it to say that if you find a instructor/school affiliated with "World Wide Krav Maga" you will learn everything you need for your stated purpose, including standing and ground skills, disarming and edged weapon defense.
I've been a student of martial arts since age 12, and if I were starting over again it would be with Krav Maga.

Much success in your training, and "stay protected" out there!

 

[Wise_A]

If talking close-quarter shooting, I would mostly agree as it being a starting point, but OP said he's looking into an effective martial art/H2H self-defense system and shivworks is pretty mediocre there. Plus a 2 day course costing hundreds of dollars is next to worthless except for gun guys wanting to fill out their training resumes.

Yes, I'm disagreeing with the premise of the question, to an extent.

I think "systems" are a ludicrous concept. I further think that unless you're really getting the snot beaten out of you on a regular basis, you're not learning anything, and most places are not going to be into hurting their clients every week because most people aren't into that. If you walk into a place and nobody has a black eye or a busted lip, the hell are they doing there? Hence--do some Crossfit.

I also think that, if you're carrying a gun, getting into a hands-on brawl is an excellent way to get shot to death with your own gun. Either by the guy you're fighting, or his buddy/girlfriend/whoever. If I bothered to do any of that stuff, "not getting shot to death with my own damn Glock" is pretty much where I would start. Hence--Shivworks, or at least looking at their marketing video.

But then again, I also do that thing where I don't go where drunks are, don't get out of my car after accidents, etc. And for some reason, when I tell someone "Get the blank back in your car!", they listen.

But mostly, ask Mountain Guerrilla, because he knows more than I do, and has fought a dude from time to time.

Other than that...whatever Jiu Jitsu place you can find that seems to have the most cops and corrections guys in it.

 

[Mister X]

Yes, I'm disagreeing with the premise of the question, to an extent.

I think "systems" are a ludicrous concept. I further think that unless you're really getting the snot beaten out of you on a regular basis, you're not learning anything, and most places are not going to be into hurting their clients every week because most people aren't into that. If you walk into a place and nobody has a black eye or a busted lip, the hell are they doing there? Hence--do some Crossfit.

I also think that, if you're carrying a gun, getting into a hands-on brawl is an excellent way to get shot to death with your own gun. Either by the guy you're fighting, or his buddy/girlfriend/whoever. If I bothered to do any of that stuff, "not getting shot to death with my own damn Glock" is pretty much where I would start. Hence--Shivworks, or at least looking at their marketing video.

But then again, I also do that thing where I don't go where drunks are, don't get out of my car after accidents, etc. And for some reason, when I tell someone "Get the blank back in your car!", they listen.

But mostly, ask Mountain Guerrilla, because he knows more than I do, and has fought a dude from time to time.

Other than that...whatever Jiu Jitsu place you can find that seems to have the most cops and corrections guys in it.

Why are systems a ludicrous concept? BJJ is a system/style taught with a particular set of techniques taught in a progressive systematic method. The same is true with most others. That doesn't mean it's right for everyone, that you must accept every aspect or that they can't change or evolve over time and most do. Ultimately, your method should be unique to you as an individual. Bruce Lee's philosophy was spot on there, but you have to start somewhere to get some foundational understanding. I've never found everything I felt I needed in one system/style, so my particular method is very much a mixture of various martial arts. Most martial arts are themselves actually a combination of techniques and methods integrated from other systems and arts despite many people believing in "pure styles". Authentic Shotokan karate for example contains many throws and takedowns borrowed from Jiu-Jitsu and Judo(with some being altered to retain the systems directives), although you'll be hard pressed to find many schools in the U.S. that teach them. While the individual has to be considered, we are all still pretty similar and there's only so many ways the human body can move effectively and there is inherent differences in success/fail probability of techniques, so there will be commonality just as we see in MMA. And people fight, not systems. If Dwayne "the rock" Johnson trains in Wushu Kung Fu while my elderly neighbor trains in BJJ and they were to get into a confrontation, I'd put my money on The Rock. No one would likely say Kung Fu beat BJJ although that's exactly what people often do.

I don't subscribe to the notion you have to abuse your body to learn effective unarmed self-defense skills. Much is said about "pressure-testing", but to what degree is it considered enough? Shivworks uses FIST helmets so that pretty much negates any realistic effects of punches to the head, plus they limit countless techniques that are considered "too dangerous". I don't see anyone blasting their opponent with head kicks, leg kicks and stomps in ECQC. People tend to react differently(both behaviorally and physically) when they know you're punches won't hurt and they actually don't do damage or overly dangerous techniques are disallowed, so Shivworks supposed highly effective pressure-testing has some severe limitations that must be taken into account, but are not.

It's a matter of finding the right balance for the individual, but even very "light" training can be beneficial and leave an individual better prepared than they were before. My elderly mother isn't capable of stuffing takedowns or dropping a man with a left hook, but she can be taught how to feign compliance, positioning and and using angles for an effective eye gouge to buy a few seconds to transition to her weapon or maybe provide an opportunity for escape or put a lock door between herself and them. Unarmed skills are very important as standalone skills(you may not be armed or it's not an appropriate response), or you can't get to it(you have to defend against the initial attack and not get knocked out, stabbed, bludgeoned to access weapon since "situationally awareness" isn't always enough).

I think it would be prudent for everyone to learn some fundamental BJJ or wrestling, but I think they are very poor choices as standalone systems for street self-defense. My directive in an H2H street encounter is still to break contact if possible and getting tied up on the ground is usually the last thing I would recommend for anyone(depending on specific circumstances), so you have to posses the prerequisite skills to allow you to remain on your feet or get back up if grounded. Ideally, I want to remain standing and put my assailant down. Not just with strikes, but also with sweeps, leg kicks, trip, throws and takedowns that allow disengagement for transiting to a weapon when appropriate or fleeing. For that goal, BJJ is fairly weak IMO. Judo, wrestling and in particular sport karate's elusive footwork are the most important elements IMO. You have to look at the components of a system/style rather than the whole and adapt them to your context.

Cops and corrections officers have different directives than civilians, so I don't see their endorsement of a particular methodology being of much significance. My DT classes were very different from what I taught civilian's. Plus, most cops are very poorly trained and easily swayed by tactical sounding terms and presentations. Craig Douglas borrowed heavily from Tony Blauer's approach when marketing his niche to gun guys and they bought into it fully. Over complicate simple techniques and concepts to keep them coming back. There's really nothing new in ECQC or the SPEAR system except the acronyms and verbiage, but if that's the only path someone thinks is worthy, go for it. It's better than nothing. I'd say save your money, watch the videos for free on YouTube and drill it with your buddies. You'll likely get better results and be better prepared than you would from a 20 hour course costing hundreds of dollars.

 

[JayFramer]

Krav or systema would be best.

 

[soFlaNative]

I learned techniques for balance and leverage 50+ years ago when I was seven during a summertime "judo" course at a local optimist club that has served me well to this day. Maintaining flexibility and core strength is now my biggest challenge and if whatever discipline one would choose to pursue emphasizes those aspects along with situational awareness I'd think anyone would be way ahead of the average miscreant being able to create space and buy time for the counter.

 

[roo_ster]

I've decided this coming year I want to start taking classes in martial arts but am not sure where to start. There are so many different kinds in my area ... Karate, Kung Fu, Judo, Kenpo, Taekwondo, Kickboxing, etc. I don't care to learn how to do flips and break boards. I just want to be trained in ways I can defend myself with my hands and feet should the situation ever arise. Is there a martial art that is more hands and method based and less about showmanship or competition? Any advice is appreciated, thanks.

BACKGROUND
Several open-hand MA styles/systems under my belt (heh). Traditional TKD, Okinawan Karate, Japanese JJ, BJJ/MMA, boxing, kickboxing, Army "Combatives." And lots of training with firearms. and other non-firearm weapons.

PHILOSOPHICAL
The higher the technology used to defend yourself, generally the less training required. President of the USA uses mere words to tell the dude with the "Football" to set off nukes and inflict megadeath on the world. A little gal with a 1911 in 9mm needs a little practice and she can put a 6'5" tall attacker in the ground without breaking a sweat. Using only what the good Lord gave you--effectively--takes time, no matter how super-dooper it is supposed to be "on the street" or "in real life, not the dojo."

PRACTICAL
1. Mindset is key.

2. If you are not already in shape, this is the first step. If you are too fat or too tight or too weak or too out of wind, you aren't going to do much of anything with empty-hand technique. Of course, you can use MA training to help get in shape, just understand you are going to flop around ineffectively until you get moderately fit.

3. Style less important than instructor and dojo/training club culture. That written, some styles have a tougher learning curve to get to practical utility than others. Traditional TKD, especially with all the flowery kicks, is tough to get to be practical with. Traditional Japanese JJ is remarkably quick to practical usage and I hardly broke a sweat implementing it...but it assumes previous MA experience. Okinawan/Japanese karate faster to utility than TKD, but much more aerobic than Japanese JJ. Western boxing is deceptively simple but mastering its relatively few attacks is tough going...but hella effective. BJJ/MMA is the new hotness. Think freestyle wrestling, but a bit more practical. Most sparring/competition BJJ/MMA leaves out strikes. Krav Maga has the usual Israeli bullshinola mystique. The only practitioners I spent time with were chumps, so I will not count their inadequacy against the system.

4. Instructor & Dojo. Whatever the MA, this dude is from whom you will learn it. If he is an *** or not good, or a runs a belt mill, you are wasting tome & money.

5. Sparring. If you want to be good in a fight, you gotta go full contact every once in a while. Most people don't want to. Most of those that do it once say "Eff this noise." The patty-cake that is most sparring in MA is nigh worthless and dangerous to many who come under the delusion that they are competent. Especially the gals. Bigger guys can deal out more punishment and they can take more punishment.

6. Size Matters. In my weight class, I was a chump relative to the really good amateurs. One weight class down, I was competitive. Two+ weight classes down and no worries. Against a gal, no matter her expertise, it would be murder. The Joss Whedon Super Kick-Azz Pixie of Death is a myth. If you are in fear for your life, have no gun, and you are facing a BIG DUDE, hopefully you have a knife and can cut him.

7. Man vs Style. The man is much more important and whatever style/system. If the man has mastered his system, has done a lot of full contact sparring, dude's gonna be dangerous. The least-mentioned style in this thread is likely the most practically dangerous: western boxing. Lots of folks still do it. There are well-developed organizations & competitions dedicated to it. There is serious money in it, for those so inclined. A guy who has boxed professionally, even if not a successful professional, will likely rip through most any casual or enthusiastic MA guy, no matter his belt or style.

Good luck finding something that works for you.








All that mess written, look for a good instructor with a good culture in the training area/dojo, that provides the opportunity for full-contact sparring.