2nd Amendment Sanctuaries
- Thread starter Okie21
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So long as gun owners steadfastly refuse to vote for a Democrat, and so long as the Democrats refuse to run moderate candidates that support gun rights...you have no political power.
Two-party system, how does it work?
Gun owners have been living that lie for decades now.
BC38 said:
Plenty of counties already do that, without petitions and other nonsense. Even ones in less-friendly states than VA.
This is just an opportunity for some electioneering on the part of county politicos for not doing stuff that would lose them their offices anyway.
dockmurgw said:
I remember remarking to Virginian gun owners, "lol, guess what's headed your way" five or six years ago.
Along with Florida, Colorado, Texas...
...and still we have to listen to Texans prattle on about how they're the "last bastion of freedom" or some such nonsense. Keep telling yourselves that.
Something-something-price of freedom-something-something-eternal vigilance.
This whole sanctuary movement is a flash in the pan, it will be short lived and soon forgotten. The genie is out of the bottle, and she has a big "AR" tattooed on her forehead. Newton said it best:
"For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."
The action: the explosive popularity of AR style guns, and how some people use them.
The reaction: a flood of gun control laws.
A majority of people these days could be considered neutral on expanded gun controls, don't care much one way or the other. So when they read about some idiot walking into a Walmart with a AR slung across his shoulder, just because he can, don't expect them to be very sympathetic to your 2A arguments. I occasionally open carry a Ruger 44 mag revolver when I want to experience the challenge of still hunting deer with it. It goes on my belt when I walk in, it comes off my belt when I walk out. But unfortunately, I have to fight for my right to do that, because our local politicians read about the idiot mentioned earlier open carrying in a Walmart, knowing they are rattling people, but do it just because they can. Then there's the mental case that shoots up a school with a 30 round mag, and the reaction being overly burdensome restrictions on classic sporting arms. Yea, I curse the day military style guns became so popular. I may be on your side in this fight, but not for the same reason as some of you, I'm not fighting for the idiot in Walmart. If not for the popularity of those guns, we wouldn't be facing the restrictions we are today. Now here's a suggestion for the owner of this forum that will go over like a lead balloon: make access to the Concealed Carry & Self Defense sub forum members only. If I was a gun control advocate, I would be sending people there to read the threads, and claim that's the typical gun owner...which would be an absolutely false statement. The gun control movement is supported by ignorance, so why give them extra support?
"For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."
The action: the explosive popularity of AR style guns, and how some people use them.
The reaction: a flood of gun control laws.
A majority of people these days could be considered neutral on expanded gun controls, don't care much one way or the other. So when they read about some idiot walking into a Walmart with a AR slung across his shoulder, just because he can, don't expect them to be very sympathetic to your 2A arguments. I occasionally open carry a Ruger 44 mag revolver when I want to experience the challenge of still hunting deer with it. It goes on my belt when I walk in, it comes off my belt when I walk out. But unfortunately, I have to fight for my right to do that, because our local politicians read about the idiot mentioned earlier open carrying in a Walmart, knowing they are rattling people, but do it just because they can. Then there's the mental case that shoots up a school with a 30 round mag, and the reaction being overly burdensome restrictions on classic sporting arms. Yea, I curse the day military style guns became so popular. I may be on your side in this fight, but not for the same reason as some of you, I'm not fighting for the idiot in Walmart. If not for the popularity of those guns, we wouldn't be facing the restrictions we are today. Now here's a suggestion for the owner of this forum that will go over like a lead balloon: make access to the Concealed Carry & Self Defense sub forum members only. If I was a gun control advocate, I would be sending people there to read the threads, and claim that's the typical gun owner...which would be an absolutely false statement. The gun control movement is supported by ignorance, so why give them extra support?
Watchdog
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It hasn't been completely forgotten yet, but just about the only people still talking about it are people on gun forums like this one, or people who write opinions on firearms-oriented websites and organizations like GOA, VCDL, ammoland, and gunrightswatch, just to mention a few. Oh, yeah, and county sheriffs who are trying to keep their names out there. Major media, mainstream and otherwise, have moved on to other things.
Exactly. Like the two Texas guys pictured below from back in 2014 when Texas was trying to get open carry reinstated (it was a successful effort). They were in a Chipotle restaurant, not a Walmart, but the concept is the same.
If there's anyone naive enough to believe the anti-gun people aren't already reading gun forums like this one (and have been doing so for years), they're living in a dreamworld. I've seen some posts on gun forums (including this one) that wouldn't even be said aloud in a room full of people, yet people will say it on an Internet forum that all the world can read at will. It's all okay, though, because the people who say these things believe they're anonymous.
Some folks ought to keep the (paraphrased) Miranda warning in mind: "Anything you say can and will be used against you."
It already does.
Watchdog
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I may have spoken too soon when I said earlier that national media has moved on from this whole 2A sanctuary topic.
There's a new opinion piece by Walter Williams just published on (where else?) FOX News. The opinion piece, itself, is new, but there's nothing new being said in it. It's just someone else jumping on the bandwagon. As for Walter Williams, he's a professor of economics at George Mason University. I don't know if he's a gun owner or not. Click here to read his opinion.
Culpepper County Sheriff Scott Jenkins gets some more media exposure (always helpful at election time) while continuing his promise to deputize "thousands of people", and Page County Sheriff Chad Cubbage declares his county to be a 2A sanctuary while vowing his office will "...oppose any infringement on the right of law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms." Of course, he doesn't say just how he'll oppose it, but jeez it sure sounds impressive doesn't it? Interested forum members may read about Sheriff Cubbage by clicking here. He doesn't talk about 2A sanctuary stuff on the website, though.
I will say this about Sheriff Jenkins, though. Of all the sheriffs who've spoken on this issue, he seems to be the best qualified as far as law enforcement credentials go.
Anyway, I'm seriously wondering what's left to say about this 2A sanctuary thing. Everyone (including me) is saying the same thing over and over again
, just phrasing it differently each time in two separate threads in this 2A Forum. It's turning into one of those nothing-left-to-see-here issues until something new (like legislation) actually happens.
There's a new opinion piece by Walter Williams just published on (where else?) FOX News. The opinion piece, itself, is new, but there's nothing new being said in it. It's just someone else jumping on the bandwagon. As for Walter Williams, he's a professor of economics at George Mason University. I don't know if he's a gun owner or not. Click here to read his opinion.
Culpepper County Sheriff Scott Jenkins gets some more media exposure (always helpful at election time) while continuing his promise to deputize "thousands of people", and Page County Sheriff Chad Cubbage declares his county to be a 2A sanctuary while vowing his office will "...oppose any infringement on the right of law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms." Of course, he doesn't say just how he'll oppose it, but jeez it sure sounds impressive doesn't it? Interested forum members may read about Sheriff Cubbage by clicking here. He doesn't talk about 2A sanctuary stuff on the website, though.
I will say this about Sheriff Jenkins, though. Of all the sheriffs who've spoken on this issue, he seems to be the best qualified as far as law enforcement credentials go.
Anyway, I'm seriously wondering what's left to say about this 2A sanctuary thing. Everyone (including me) is saying the same thing over and over again
Walt Williams editorial(s)
See previous post...I believe Walt Williams is a staunch supporter of the Bill of Rights. Some years back (15 or more I`m sure) he wrote an editorial and said something to the effect (so not word for word) 'you heard they took Williams gun? So Williams is dead'.
See previous post...I believe Walt Williams is a staunch supporter of the Bill of Rights. Some years back (15 or more I`m sure) he wrote an editorial and said something to the effect (so not word for word) 'you heard they took Williams gun? So Williams is dead'.
Sheriff Richard Vaughan of Grayson County, Virginia has also stated that he will screen and deputize citizens. See the link provided and go down about 1/3 of the way and read where it says "Vaughan's Proclamation."
Grayson becomes 2nd Amendment sanctuary | GalaxGazette.com
Grayson becomes 2nd Amendment sanctuary | GalaxGazette.com
What this Sheriff is doing is a work around. In effect he'll background check and then deputize any non prohibited person who wants to retain a weapon that is prohibited under the law using a LEO exemption. That will work as long as he continues to be the Sheriff in Grayson County.
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There's a distinction that needs to be made here.
A county Sheriff is an elected official and he is accountable to the people who elected him.
On contrast, a chief of police is more often than not either a straight up political appointee, or he or she is a civil service employee who is accountable to the elected officials over them (the mayor, city council, etc). The difference between the two is small. An appointee serves at will and can be terminated for no reason. It takes about 30 days longer to get rid of a civil service police chief.
That's why the vast majority of law enforcement support for 2A rights comes from county Sheriffs. They are accountable to the voters and if a majority of voters in the county are pro gun, they'll be vocal in their support of 2A rights. Most Sheriffs also recognize
and voice that response times in rural areas are long and that citizens are responsible for their own self defense as law enforcement will never arrive in time to stop an assailant.
Police chiefs recognize that an 8 minute urban or suburban response time is just as useless as a 30 or 40 minute rural response time. However, most of them won't say it publically, and they won't make pro gun statements if the elected officials they report to do not have strong pro 2A agendas. Why? Because they'd be fired.
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Keep that in mind when you start talking about 2A sanctuaries. At best it means the Sheriff and the deputies will all be "too busy" to go out and confiscate weapons, or assist other agencies to do so. But keep in mind many states give local LEOs statewide jurisdiction, and there will still be state and federal officers who'll step in to do the job.
If you think most LEOs would refuse you'll be sadly mistaken. Most are not gun people and quite frankly a growing number would be happy to see citizens disarmed for a variety of reasons. And, if you own weapons that are now banned and you have not turned them in, you're now in that non law abiding citizen category and you'll be treated as such - more so because you are armed and obviously not in support of the law or enforcement of the law.
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Ultimately, the whole concept of a "2A Sanctuary" is nothing more than a protest movement. Rather than pushing for local elected officials to proclaim 2A sanctuary status your time is better spent making it clear to state and federal level officials that their political careers are at risk if they pass these laws in the first place.
To accomplish we have to get the moderates, who don't have strong feelings one way or the other about gun rights, on our side. We can't afford to come off looking like a bunch of irresponsible rednecks, or insensitive right wing extremists as that will turn those moderates against us. Instead we have to come off as responsible gun owners who have wives and kids and jobs and normal civic activities like everyone else.
For some, that will mean filtering opinions on gays, immigrants, affordable health care, abortion, and other issues where moderate may have much stronger feelings than on guns. To keep our 2A rights, we need to identify common ground (such as why a threat to 2A rights will evolve into a threat to 1A rights, etc) and common cause, rather than continuing to divide ourselves against each other. It'll mean making some compromises in our world view for the good of all and developing tolerance for the rights and interests of others in exchange for tolerance for responsible gun ownership from people who otherwise don't care.
Is it just me, or does anyone else think this Sheriff is nuttier than a fruit cake? Does this "Screening" include the customary back ground checks, psych exams and polygraphs that real cops submit to, and the cost that goes with it? And is this County prepared for the collateral cost associated with all these new deputies? For example, workers comp insurance, liability exposure, bubba trips on a stick and the county owns his medical bills and disability forever...is this County trying to be the setting for the next Mad Max movie? Don't they realize what type of person will be lining up to become a new deputy? Hint: look at the concealed carry sub forum. Good grief, beam me up Scotty!!!
Jessie, with all due respect, their has been a lot of discussion on solutions, but the solutions require work and time. For me its an endless task, and few here would consider my solutions a solution at all. My solution is to talk to people that are neutral on the issue. Preaching to the choir is a waste of time, and debating gun control advocates is a waste of time. As an example, one of our legislators announced that he is submitting legislation to control "Assault Weapons", but this guys definition of assault weapon is anything semi automatic. My response is not to defend the AR crowd, but explaining to people that classic sporting arms are being targeted...I use the shotguns raffled off by DU as an example...and that gets them thinking. There is no one solution...demographics, a change in the way mental illness is managed, voters not voting, gun owners doing stupid things, public perception of gun owners...all contribute to the problem.
I hear you Doc and you are correct. It’s a long hard road that needs to be walked.
I also believe that the sanctuary issue is the only thing so far that has incited people to do Something collectively.
You can’t get people to change something if they’re not even listening to you.
They’re listening now.
I also believe that the sanctuary issue is the only thing so far that has incited people to do Something collectively.
You can’t get people to change something if they’re not even listening to you.
They’re listening now.
Watchdog
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I try not to put labels on individuals or refer to them in derogatory terms, so...no, I don't think sheriff Vaughan is nuts, even though I have no proof that he isn't. I have to admit, though, Vaughan lost his credibility with me when he started in about how ARs are not much more than a squirrel gun, or however he phrased it. That one did make me lean back from the keyboard for a minute or two. Then when he threw out that "slippery slope" cliché, that was pretty much it for me.
No one is thinking about the practical aspects. Practicality takes second place to fiery rhetoric and finger pointing 98% of the time when it comes to Second Amendment issues.
Buses will be coming from every corner of the state on Jan 20, courtesy of VCDL.
Virginia Citizens Defense League - VCDL Lobby Day -- Richmond VA
VCDL Lobby Day 1/20/2020 8AM
Get em’ VCDL!
Virginia Citizens Defense League - VCDL Lobby Day -- Richmond VA
VCDL Lobby Day 1/20/2020 8AM
Get em’ VCDL!
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Sistema1927
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Pima County?
LOL, what happened to not labeling people or referring to them in derogatory terms?
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