Gentlemen. I sincerely apologize for any confusion that I caused yesterday by mistakenly saying that my Victory revolver S/N V390652 had a 5” barrel. It was totally my mistake as it really is a 4” barrel. All the other information I gave was correct. I really do know how to measure a revolver barrel and how to read a ruler. Why I typed 5 instead of 4 I will never know.
Victory data base
- Thread starter zonker5
- Start date
Does the victory database note if the submission was a “red letter” revolver? I ask because I’m curious if these were encountered around a specific serial number range or were more random. Over on gunboards for example I was just looking at a pre victory gun red letter marked property of u.s. navy. It was surprising to me as I thought that was a Victory revolver only pantograph marking on guns shipped to navy. Admittedly I’m new to this. How early was the navy doing this? Did they apply it to non S&W guns?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
DWalt
Member
The Red (and White) letter revolvers were not engraved by S&W. Apparently early on, they were engraved at various Navy yards and the engraving filled with paint. So historical letters will not address the property engraving. The highest SN on my list having an engraving is V1354xx, but most on my list are either pre-Victories or very low in the Victory SN range.
Good day . this is my new SW model Victory. SN V452492. There is a special BAZ marking on the rear handle. The numbers on all parts match. Sorry for my English.
Attachments
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
The gun is originally from later 1943, around November.
After the war, US authorities issued it to German police in occupied Berlin.
The stamp means
B = Berlin
A = Amerikanischer Sektor
Z = Zehlendorf (the city district)
Above is the Berlin police star, sometimes called a sunburst or rosette.
Thanks you Very match. Caliber 38 SW Special. Barel 4 inches.
Puller
Member
This has been a very interesting thread.
I have a Victory, serial number V639265 to share for the data base. Serial number is also on the outer lip of the cylinder face.
It has a flaming bomb on the right side but has no other government markings. Top strap has no markings.
It has been Parkerized at some point.
Any information would be appreciated.
I have a Victory, serial number V639265 to share for the data base. Serial number is also on the outer lip of the cylinder face.
It has a flaming bomb on the right side but has no other government markings. Top strap has no markings.
It has been Parkerized at some point.
Any information would be appreciated.
chiefdave
US Veteran
That's an odd placement for the flaming bomb and the finish looks like Parkerizing. Could be an arsenal refinish. Is there a P stamped on the left side of the frame under the hammer, rear face of the cylinder and on the barrel flat? More pictures would be helpful.
Quiet 1
Member
RE: Puller's post from yesterday.
It's certainly been refinished (parkerized... different from the original S&W proprietary phosphate 'Military Midnight Black' ). Perhaps the flaming bomb, U.S. Property, G.H.D. stamping was removed???
It's also odd that the flaming bomb Ordnance acceptance stamp is missing from both the frame 'butt' and the top strap but a, what appears to me, oversized rendering is stamped on the frame beneath the MADE IN U.S.A.
Is the bottom of the barrel (when cylinder is open) clearly marked V 639265? Are the grips numbered to the gun?
It's certainly been refinished (parkerized... different from the original S&W proprietary phosphate 'Military Midnight Black' ). Perhaps the flaming bomb, U.S. Property, G.H.D. stamping was removed???
It's also odd that the flaming bomb Ordnance acceptance stamp is missing from both the frame 'butt' and the top strap but a, what appears to me, oversized rendering is stamped on the frame beneath the MADE IN U.S.A.
Is the bottom of the barrel (when cylinder is open) clearly marked V 639265? Are the grips numbered to the gun?
Last edited:
Puller
Member
Does not appear to be a P stamped anywhere. Grips are marked with s/n .
Here's some more pictures as requested.
Here's some more pictures as requested.
Last edited:
Quiet 1
Member
It's clear in the third photo that the serial number has been ground off the bottom of the barrel (or, it's a replacement barrel that was never numbered). However, the grips, cylinder and frame match. The normal ordnance acceptance stamps are gone, but, an oversize flaming bomb has been applied to the frame's right side.
I don't have any guesses other then the missing serial number and ordnance acceptance stamps were removed during the refinishing prep. Perhaps someone will be along with a plausible explanation or theory.
Last edited:
franck1963
Member
Yes, this revolver is in France . Provided to local resistance group (Area of Toulouse) The owner of gun was engraving his initials on left grip. The gun was bought to grandson of this man.
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
By V 639265, mid-1944, all Victorys, whether military or DSC, received the triple P proof, so while a non-serialed (probably post-war) replacement barrel won’t have one, those on cylinder and frame in front of the hammer should be there.
US arsenal refinished Victorys aren’t a thing. That doesn’t mean that some bored unit or depot armorer somewhere might not have done a gun or a few, but there was no organized effort or program like on earlier .38 DA Colts during WW I or the .45 revolvers in the inter-war years. The military had too many after 1945 and started surplusing them out and selling them on to PD’s and such soon after the war.
Another consideration is that the original US Ordnance flaming bomb was not standardized and appeared in various shapes and sizes. And any ordnance stamp you desire is available for purchase, surplus and replica. It will be hard, likely impossible, to determine whether this stamp means anything or the refinisher just fancied a cool decoration.
Attachments
anonymouscow
Member
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2020
- Messages
- 35
- Reaction score
- 25
I am pretty sure I can make out a “P” on the frame and one on the cylinder, I looked on where they were on one of mine so I would know where to look. They are both faint, but once I zoomed in they can be made out.
I am fairly new to the Victory world but I don’t think I have seen a flaming bomb in that location either. I would lean toward thinking it is a more recent addition, it looks pretty well defined, most of the other markings are pretty well worn. Maybe a DSC firearm someone added the flaming bomb to, no real reason to grind the top off just to add a bomb somewhere else, unless it was just too far worn after refinishing.
Last edited:
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Bingo. You got better eyes than I do. I had to bring the photos up on the desktop and enlarge them, but I’ve got both P’s now, too. Especially the one on the frame suffered a lot from the refinish. They’re usually much sharper.
Attachments
Puller
Member
Okay, now that I know where to look I can see the "P" on the frame and the "P" on the cylinder face.
The flat area under the barrel does not show any tell tale signs of grinding, so I'm assuming it may be a replacement barrel.
I appreciate the information gentlemen.
Last edited:
anonymouscow
Member
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2020
- Messages
- 35
- Reaction score
- 25
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-hand-ejectors-1896-1961/492412-pre-victory-model.html?492412=#post139285024
I ran across a thread, linked above, that has a pre-victory with similar characteristics to the victory in the previous few posts, pictures from that thread posted below.
Similar flaming bomb (except on the left side of the frame), barrel swap (except serial numbers re-stamped), and looks to be refinished.
I ran across a thread, linked above, that has a pre-victory with similar characteristics to the victory in the previous few posts, pictures from that thread posted below.
Similar flaming bomb (except on the left side of the frame), barrel swap (except serial numbers re-stamped), and looks to be refinished.
anonymouscow
Member
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2020
- Messages
- 35
- Reaction score
- 25
This was my attempt to compare the two flaming bombs. I am just using my phone so it’s not exact, also the photo on the left was taken at an angle and it looks like they were struck a little differently or worn differently. The flames look a little different, not that it it really makes a difference one way or another, it’s mostly just how I entertain myself.
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2020
- Messages
- 3
- Reaction score
- 0
Victory Model that I inherited
I am looking for info on the history of the pistol that I inherited from my Mom.
The serial number is V231531. It has the large "P" stamp on the barrel and the "BNP" proof mark.
Any info is appreciated.
I am looking for info on the history of the pistol that I inherited from my Mom.
The serial number is V231531. It has the large "P" stamp on the barrel and the "BNP" proof mark.
Any info is appreciated.
Last edited:
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
We can’t get very specific, but the BNP (Birmingham Nitro Proof) would indicate that it is chambered in .38 S&W, has or at least had a 5” barrel and a US property stamping on the topstrap, and based on the serial was shipped to Britain under Lend-Lease in spring 1943.
Where is that “large P” located on the barrel? A photo would be helpful.
