Need advice for a 5906 decocking and magazine safety function.

[RalphMP9FS]

I picked up a police surplus 5906 this morning. I wasn't familiar with all the 3rd generation functions when I was at my FFL, so everything looked fine and I brought it home.

Are all 5906's suppose to decock and have a magazine safety, or were there exceptions? This 5906 decocker/safety lever works like a safety and not a decocker. It locks the trigger and manually blocks the firing pin. The slide to frame fit is really good and there's almost no vertical play on the front or the back-end of the slide to frame fit, just a touch of horizontal play. The gun does decock while sliding and removing the slide from the frame. I exerted alot of up/down hand pressure and wiggling on the slide to frame and external levers and hammer, and it would not decock the hammer. The saftey/decocking lever moves smoothly and clicks from off to full on, and there's no hint of hammer movement while doing this, and the trigger is still blocked as it should be.

Next area, the magazine safety disconnect white plunger does not apply enough pressure to lower the ejector lever and disable the trigger function. If I use my finger and manually lower the magazine lever/ejector, the trigger will disengage as it should. The white plunger is installed and works, but the plunger spring is very weak (not binding), almost as if it was designed that way on this particular 5906.

Anyway, I happen to like the way this 5906 operates. It matches the function of my metal CZ's that have safety levers. I have no use for a decocker or magazine disconnect with a range gun. So what's the expert advice on this unusual 5906. Was it possibly modified by the factory or by someone who really knew what they were doing. I can't manipulate it in any way to get the hammer to drop unintentionally, only if you pull the 5lb+ trigger. Here's several pics of the components involved:

 

[RalphMP9FS]

This 5906 doesn't look very worn to me. Two more pics:

 

[armorer951]

The problem with the safety lever not dropping the hammer when rotated is usually due to the wear (or the removal of material) on the top of the sear release lever in the frame. When the safety lever is rotated, the lever should push the sear off the hammer and the hammer should drop. In the photo, your lever appears rounded off on top. No way to know if someone tampered with the lever or it's just honest wear.

Also, if there is excessive wear on the frame and slide rails, the manual safety decock may not work and the sear lever may not decock the gun. Try engaging the safety lever fully down, and then pressing down firmly on the top of the slide right behind the rear sight to see if the hammer will drop.

The magazine safety plunger spring may have been cut, or it may be damaged. No way to know for sure without removing the rear sight and checking the integrity of the parts.

 

[Sevens]

Wow, I’m curious to know ultimately what the answer might be. On the technical side, I have nothing of value that I can add. If this were mine and I was staring at this and looking for answers, my first move would be to grab another slide from any other of my 9mm 3rd Gens and try a different slide to see if the pistols acts differently.

I might also try to swap out the entire safety/decocker drum with another and see if perhaps it was modified?

I’m basically posting to subscribe, I’d like to hear what others have to say. In -all- the S&W 1/2/3rd Gen pistols that I own, not a single one of them locks the sear/trigger. Of course, all my DA/SA guns are set up for that lever to decock, but all my single action only S&W pistols simply block the firing pin. As in, the pistol will let you dry fire on to the safety, but I won’t ever do that.

I know that the Performance Center was occasionally asked to alter a 3rd Gen to be capable of “cocked and locked” but we’d be talking about an extremely small sampling of a MASSIVE over all number of guns.

 

[RalphMP9FS]

The problem with the safety lever not dropping the hammer when rotated is usually due to the wear (or the removal of material) on the top of the manual safety lever in the frame. When the safety lever is rotated, the lever should push the sear off the hammer and the hammer should drop. In the photo, your lever appears rounded off on top. No way to know if someone tampered with the lever or it's just honest wear.

Also, if there is excessive wear on the frame and slide rails, the manual safety decock lever may not decock the gun. Try engaging the safety levery fully down, and then pressing on the top of the slide right behind the rear sight to see if the hammer will drop.

The magazine safety plunger spring may have been cut, or it may be damaged.

I pushed the rear of slide down pretty hard with the lever engaged and it did not decock. Trust me, as I noted earlier, the slide to frame fit is really good. I read earlier about frame wear and decocker lever not engaging, so I checked all that before posting this.

 

[RalphMP9FS]

Wow, I’m curious to know ultimately what the answer might be. On the technical side, I have nothing of value that I can add. If this were mine and I was staring at this and looking for answers, my first move would be to grab another slide from any other of my 9mm 3rd Gens and try a different slide to see if the pistols acts differently.

I might also try to swap out the entire safety/decocker drum with another and see if perhaps it was modified?

I’m basically posting to subscribe, I’d like to hear what others have to say. In -all- the S&W 1/2/3rd Gen pistols that I own, not a single one of them locks the sear/trigger. Of course, all my DA/SA guns are set up for that lever to decock, but all my single action only S&W pistols simply block the firing pin. As in, the pistol will let you dry fire on to the safety, but I won’t ever do that.

I know that the Performance Center was occasionally asked to alter a 3rd Gen to be capable of “cocked and locked” but we’d be talking about an extremely small sampling of a MASSIVE over all number of guns.

Thanks, with the safety lever down/engaged, I tried with quite of bit of pressure pulling the trigger, and it will not unlock the trigger or move and release the hammer until the lever is flipped up. This is the only metal SW I have, so swapping parts is not going to happen.

 

[armorer951]

The new sear release levers are available at Numrich but it will likely need fitting. These particular levers are not "drop in" parts.

Sear Release Lever | Gun Parts Corp.

 

[RalphMP9FS]

The new sear release levers are available at Numrich but it will likely need fitting. These particular levers are not "drop in" parts.

Sear Release Lever | Gun Parts Corp.

Thanks, I read earlier about fitting a new sear lever, but I really like the way this particular 5906 operates, just like my metal CZ's do. What is the downside to leaving it like it is? I just want to cover all the bases, so nothing unusual happens down the line, and I was hoping someone on the forum might know more about the way this 5906 is setup. It would be wonderful if the facory set it up like this. Hmmmm maybe a phone call to SW might help answer this or maybe not.

 

[WR Moore]

While it's possible, as armorer951 notes, that the "issues" are due to wear, it's also possible that someone "fixed" those items to disable the magazine safety and decocking function. I'd bet a bale of Benjamins it isn't factory.

Question: when you say the "trigger is locked", do you mean it won't move, or doesn't drop the hammer? If the safety is operating as originally designed, the trigger should move, but not drop the hammer. If the trigger won't move, some massive changes have been made in the internal parts.

If you look at pic 4 & 5, post 1 you can see flats on the safety barrel when the safety is "off". When the safety is "on", as in picture 2, post 2; you can see a round surface on the top part of the safety barrel, behind the firing pin safety plunger. It appears there is a flat on the lower part, behind the magazine safety plunger. There should be a round surface. If there's a flat, the safety barrel has been modified.

The usual method of eliminating the magazine safety and decocking features is to remove at least the spring (you can leave the plunger in place) that drives the magazine safety plunger and to trim the sear release lever to keep the hammer from dropping. If done that way, the magazine safety won't work and while the trigger moves back and forth with the safety "on", the gun won't fire.

If the trigger actually won't move with the safety "on", you have to realize that 3rd generation parts are no longer being made. A future user may want it to work as intended and you'll need have someone who knows what they're about to figure out what parts need replaced and get them now.

Downside: if you sell it, as is, you need to document that you informed the buyer of the altered functions. Get their signature on hard copy of the warning and keep a copy. Also, if someone else shoots it and expects the magazine safety and decocker to work, you're responsible for any OOPS. No, you're not supposed to trust any safety device, but people do.

 

[RalphMP9FS]

While it's possible, as armorer951 notes, that the "issues" are due to wear, it's also possible that someone "fixed" those items to disable the magazine safety and decocking function.

Decades ago, I did those mods to several model 39's used by a county sheriffs officers. AFTER getting a hold harmless document from the Sheriff. Those changes used to be tactikewl. I'd bet a bale of Benjamins that the factory didn't do it.

Downside: if you sell it, you need to document that you informed the buyer of the altered functions. Get their signature on hard copy of the warning and keep a copy. Also, if someone else shoots it and expects the magazine safety and decocker to work, you're responsible for any OOPS. No, you're not supposed to trust any safety device, but people do.

I agree, but the handgun, in it's current state, is just as safe as any modern gun in production today. I'm still not convinced the factory did not alter it as a possible special order for some agency. I guess I have to make the SW call and hopefully find out (I doubt the person on the phone will have that info). BTW, many many people sell handguns that have trigger work and other custom work without seller disclosures, very common.

 

[armorer951]

Based on the condition of the sear release lever that is visible in your photos, that alteration was not done by the factory. In the scenario you describe, if they were to intentionally alter the function/design of the lever at the request of a consumer, (municipality or police department) they would make the lever serve as a spacer only, and it would no longer have a top where it could interface with the manual safety, or beveled edge at the bottom, where it could interact with the sear. I believe your sear release lever was altered after leaving the factory, but this is pure opinion on my part, based on the appearance of the lever in the photo you provided.

This is the shape and contour of an unaltered sear release lever. Notice how the top profile is flat, and differs from the one in your frame, which has a rounded profile on top....

 

[RalphMP9FS]

Based on the condition of the sear release lever that is visible in your photos, that was not done by the factory. In the scenario you describe, if they were to intentionally alter the function/design of the lever at the request of a consumer, they would make the lever serve as a spacer only, and it would no longer have a top where it could interface with the manual safety, or beveled edge at the bottom, where it could interact with the sear.

Thanks, that makes sense, so what is your opinion on what was done or happened? Remember, the slide to frame fit is very good with almost zero vertical play. Also, the overall wear looks minimal to me, but does it to you?

 

[armorer951]

No way to be sure whether it's from use, or the lever was intentionaly altered. It could be that someone (previous owner) wanted to eliminate the sear release function, so that the hammer would remain cocked whether the safety lever was in the down or up position.

 

[SG-688]

Maybe it's me and my screen settings, but the hammer and safety levers look gold color - like some titanium nitride coated 1911 parts.

I don't recall any aftermarket TiN S&W parts, but I'm long out of the game.

 

[Steve912]

No way to be sure whether it's from use, or the lever was intentionaly altered.

Have you seen them wear that much, from use?

 

[RalphMP9FS]

I haven't even fired this gun yet. I sent the seller an email describing the current condition with the two non-standard conditions. He replied saying that he can repair it to factory spec, replace it, or refund the purchase price, and he will pay for shipping. I really like the current configuration since it matches my CZ's, but it's not factory spec, so what the heck should I do?

 

[RalphMP9FS]

Maybe it's me and my screen settings, but the hammer and safety levers look gold color - like some titanium nitride coated 1911 parts.

I don't recall any aftermarket TiN S&W parts, but I'm long out of the game.

Yes, there are six parts that were gold plated, and the frame and slide were high polished.

 

[armorer951]

Have you seen them wear that much, from use?

I have never seen them wear that much from use, no. And the slide doesn't put down file marks either.

 

[4506517]

WAIT................

Is that a GOLD hammer?!?!

 

[RalphMP9FS]

WAIT................

Is that a GOLD hammer?!?!

Yep, 24kt gold plated.