Ghost Guns

[schutzen-jager]

ironic !!!

here in NJ. gun registration is not required , but the sale of any firearm is required with serial numbers + description must be filed with the state police ?????? - there is a provision to voluntarily register them if owner desires -

 

[Beemerguy53]

You obviously did not watch the show.
Previous to watching the program, I was aware of them, but thought they were mostly Filipino backwoods 1911s, made one at a time.
Not so. Quite a industry right here, making hundreds of thousands of many models, with minimal requirements for completing the frame.

I am always amused by people who tell me they won't watch this-or-that news channel, or read this-or-that newspaper, because they lie. How do you know they lie, I ask, if you won't read or watch them?

I'm not blind to the agenda of some in the press...but even a stopped clock is right twice per day! This whole issue of home-made, unserialized guns has become very serious in some big cities with serious crime problems. Think about it: if you're a bad guy, you don't have to rob somebody or break into a home, and pay a fortune for a contraband gun on the street that might not even work correctly. For a relatively modest investment, you can make, or pay somebody to make, a high-quality new firearm that will function just like a factory-built model.

Having said that, I understand why a law abiding citizen would want a confiscation-proof gun...but that doesn't mean that reporting on the criminal use of such guns is a false story.

 

[WCCPHD]

The "story" was to push a non-issue so the sheep will get behind total registration of all guns.

Keep in mind these folks are patient, persistent and well funded. They see every small movement in their direction as a win for them and a loss for those they seek to rule.

One of my closest friends retired recently with 35 years with ATF. He said that gun traces are basically worthless (as already talked about). They do provide ATF with "leads" IF a large number of guns involved in crime are being traced to one particular gun dealer. Then they will investigate the operation of that particular business.

Ghost guns are just like the gun show loophole and universal background checks, one more way to incrementally take our Second Amendment rights. And, what chaps my hide is that the so called main stream media will lie, cheat and steal to take our Second Amendment rights while hiding behind the First Amendment.

 

[Beemerguy53]

The "story" was to push a non-issue so the sheep will get behind total registration of all guns.

Keep in mind these folks are patient, persistent and well funded. They see every small movement in their direction as a win for them and a loss for those they seek to rule.

One of my closest friends retired recently with 35 years with ATF. He said that gun traces are basically worthless (as already talked about). They do provide ATF with "leads" IF a large number of guns involved in crime are being traced to one particular gun dealer. Then they will investigate the operation of that particular business.

Ghost guns are just like the gun show loophole and universal background checks, one more way to incrementally take our Second Amendment rights. And, what chaps my hide is that the so called main stream media will lie, cheat and steal to take our Second Amendment rights while hiding behind the First Amendment.

I agree with your assessment of the agenda here, but that doesn't change the fact that this is a problem in some cities and locales. What happened is that criminals have found a way to exploit the law for their own purposes; the challenge for us -- as always -- is to insist that the actions of a criminal ought not be used to deny us our rights.

 

[ladder13]

Consider the source. CBS & 60 Minutes. Quite possibly the most liberal, anti-gun and bias news organization on the planet. They never let facts get in the way of good sensationalism as long as it fits their agenda.

And the last segment of the show was another political hack job.

 

[wheelgun28]

I own a machine shop, every hunk of metal is a -0-% frame!

I never really understood why traceability is so big? Mr Smith wants a life of crime and follows all the steps to buy a legit gun?

Aw, I was going to be a bank robber but it is to much work to buy a gun so Ill just work at the coal mine?

How hard is it to remove the serial number of any gun?

Use a cheap harbor freight grinder and in thirty seconds or less its never seen again.

Most people don't build these things for escaping registration but rather the sake of doing it themselves. Back in the day, we were building the AK kits, not so simple to get it right. I have some AR lower forgings I was going to build. It is a lot of work but can be a fun project.

Just something else ruined by the government

 

[pawngal]

To me it is amazing how many people don't get what really happens with the FFL and the 4473. I bet over 90% of gun buyers think a gun is "registered" when a FFL sale is made.

My main FFL guy is a small time dealer and he told me that a BATF guy took a brief look at his book only once in all the time he has had an FFL.

Exactly! And I've had people bring in guns that they inherited or got from a friend and wanted to register them,
.
I've had a FFL for 29 years, one short check up by an agent

 

[gregintenn]

Wow!
Corona Virus?
Murder Hornets??
Ghost guns???


I ain't leaving the house ever again!!!

 

[steelslaver]

As most here known criminals find ways to get guns. Plus, we have a lot of members who are LEOS and most of them are well versed in criminals and ggun. Criminals always have managed to get guns and always will. Even in the former Soviet Union the gangs had guns. I am sure some gangs and drug dealers flush with money are having them built. A few of the brighter criminals are probably making their own to. Thing is lost of criminals can't even read, let alone machine something.

I bet far more people are killed with baseball bats than ghost guns.

I didn't pick up an 80% lower because of not traceable thing. Just thought it would be interesting and for the cost is minimal. I have blown $40 for less

 

[keith44spl]

I've often pondered making an aluminum airweight N frame.....

.

 

[BONDOBOB]

Supposedly, all mine went to a where house in CALIF and there is a team of people changing them to computer files then the hard copies will be destroyed. I lady I had was a GOOD agent, every time she made contact she played with the GUARDdog for 45 min then looked at my books for 15 min then left. SHE SAID" they do have records, how do you think they do gun traces when you are called by ATF" But if that guy sells the gun, who knows

 

[Igiveup]

Building a "ghost gun" is fun, and gives a personal touch to the gun, but really, it isn't that cheap, as, I think, one tends to buy better quality parts for the gun, and heck, AR15's are relatively cheap now days.

 

[CZU]

As far as ghost guns go this makes for interesting reading:

Former ATF agent at center of legal dispute over AR-15

 

[steelslaver]

I had read about theses cases and how they are being dismissed. Basically an AR lower (and many others) does not meet the definition of a receiver and therefore can't be subject to their control. Barrel is not attracted to it it contains no chamber or bolt.

BATF definition of a receiver ""That part of a firearm which provides housing for the hammer, bolt or breech block, and firing mechanism, and which is usually threaded at its forward portion to receive the barrel."

Not only that, but, I think that in reality you could machine out the side pocket on an AR lower, cross drill it for a full auto sear and it wouldn't actually fit the definition of a machine gun receiver until you attached an upper to it, at this point. At this point I think it the BATF would be hard pressed to convict you. Of course they could make it miserable for you. But, then as pointed out by an expert trained by the BATF the lower does not meet their own criteria of a receiver.

 

[flagman1776]

We have two issues in play here.
1) is the 80% receivers now legally "non-guns" which are legal for want-to-be gun owners to assemble into working firearms as allowed by law. It's been legal for gun owners to make your own firearms since a blacksmith first hammered iron on an an anvil before we were a country. It's just illegal to sell them without a serial number.
In regard to 80% receivers... What do you want it to be? 70%? 50%? 10%? The antis will never be happy.

2) is a technical definition that the legal description of a firearm's receiver doesn't apply to certain modern firearms. And probably many antique ones like true replica muzzleloaders. Shame on ATFE for not getting the legal definition fixed years ago.

 

[Robspeire]

I was searching earlier today for the value of a Savage 185K-A, bolt action 20 gauge shotgun. It was made from 1950-1955. It has no serial # and was made without 1.

So I guess I have a Ghost Gun. Its been a wall hanger for over 50 years & in excellent shape

 

[Mule Packer]

I'd sure hate to guess how many old farmhouse or ranch guns that have been passed down to family members are still in use on the old homesteads across this country. Probably a heckuva lot more than our government would care to admit to. I'm thinkin' guns like old .30-30's, single-shot, double-barrel, or pump shotguns, scores of old .22's that were kept by the kitchen door to keep hawks out of the chicken run. These guns are still fully functional and many are still seeing active duty. I know of a few personally. And of course, there's absolutely no paper on any of 'em. I mean, heck!...many of these old firearms were purchased out of the Sears catalog.

I certainly don't want to get political, but you have to admit, some of these dear folks are necessary to provide good comedy relief for the rest of us.

 

[Skwirl]

Hey,
Where can I get 1 of those?

 

[Burley]

An easy ghost is a black powder revolver with a center fire cylinder.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Two things come to my mind.

$500 for a kit that is almost a gun............

A $200 beater and a $10 file.

Do we have a problem ?

Let me finish my coffee and I will get back with you...........