Victory data base

[grendelbean]

Just received the SWHF authentication letter on V67232. Details confirmed from the S&W records. It was shipped on September 3, 1942 on a DSC contract order or one reviolver to the Bath Iron Works, Bath, ME.
The finish identified as "Midnight Black Finish."

 

[ordnanceguy]

Grendelbean:

Thanks for the update on your V67232. I have added this important information to the Database. Bath Iron Works built a huge number of ships during WW2 and was, thus, a critical defense industry.

 

[grendelbean]

Thanks for the feedback. Bath Iron Works (under the ownership of General Dynamics now) is still cranking out ships for the U.S. Navy.
At the time they requested this gun they had just expanded to three building locations on the Kennebec River and were producting a ship every seventeen days. That output included both combatants such as Destroyers and Frigates and also Liberty Ships to haul cargo.
I can just seen old V67232 riding on the hip of some guy at the gate to a shipyard in Maine....... Thanks again.

 

[DWalt]

The DSC revolvers were intended for essential stateside users - security guards for defense plants, shipyards, etc., also for local/state/federal law enforcement agencies. Ordinary civilians couldn't get them. DSC acted as an intermediary between the users and S&W. For example, if a county sheriff's department needed a few revolvers, they would submit a purchase order with payment to DSC, who would in turn submit the order with payment to S&W. S&W would then ship the guns directly to the sheriff's office. DSC also worked with other gun manufacturers such as Colt and H&R.

 

[Absalom]

....
DSC acted as an intermediary between the users and S&W. For example, if a county sheriff's department needed a few revolvers, they would submit a purchase order with payment to DSC, who would in turn submit the order with payment to S&W. S&W would then ship the guns directly to the sheriff's office...

Slight correction:

The DSC purchased and prepaid for larger batches of revolvers, and then approved allocation of those guns to recipients who paid the DSC.

Documents about individual orders now accessible through the SWHF indicate that the DSC shipping orders sent to S&W involved no invoice or payment.

 

[Machineryman]

Good day all, New guy here. I recently inherited a Victory from my father in law and after looking through this thread I am hoping someone can tell me more about this gun.

As mentioned above, it's victory s/n V74198, the only proof marks I found on the frame are as follows. Under the left side grip at the bottom of the frame there is a 1 on the forward side and a 1 on the rearward side. On the upper part of the frame as it arches into the body of the gun there is a 0 about midway up and above that are what appear to be two sets of parentheses. Under the right side grip there is a V a Z and an S with the Z being next to dowel for the grip and the V and S below but not next each other.

The serial numbers on the frame, barrel, cylinder and grips all match and the gun is very solid.

By the way the V proceeding the number is stamped directly next to it, not on the other side of the lanyard ring (if that makes a difference).

Anything you can tell me is greatly appreciated!

 

[DWalt]

Good day all, New guy here. I recently inherited a Victory from my father in law and after looking through this thread I am hoping someone can tell me more about this gun.

As mentioned above, it's victory s/n V74198, the only proof marks I found on the frame are as follows. Under the left side grip at the bottom of the frame there is a 1 on the forward side and a 1 on the rearward side. On the upper part of the frame as it arches into the body of the gun there is a 0 about midway up and above that are what appear to be two sets of parentheses. Under the right side grip there is a V a Z and an S with the Z being next to dowel for the grip and the V and S below but not next each other.

The serial numbers on the frame, barrel, cylinder and grips all match and the gun is very solid.

By the way the V proceeding the number is stamped directly next to it, not on the other side of the lanyard ring (if that makes a difference).

Anything you can tell me is greatly appreciated!

Why don't you provide the caliber, the barrel length, and a picture or two? Then someone may be able to provide information.

 

[fishhead]

Victory with German markings and letter

This was in a lot of three guns I purchased at auction in order to get one of the others. I know nothing about these so have been trying to read all the postings here. Wow! Thanks for all the work! As the letter shows V482880 was shipped to the Navy Dec 30 1943 at Rosslyn VA. 4 inch barrel. It has German eagle proofs on the barrel, frame and cylinder. Also Heidelberg police markings on the backstrap and butt of one grip. Grips have matching serial number. No Navy markings? Have they been removed? Also WV on butt of frame. What does this mean? So the gun went to the Navy, then police service and finally retailed by Geco? Also came with this holster but not sure when this was added? Any info much appreciated.

 

[Absalom]

... No Navy markings? Have they been removed? Also WV on butt of frame. What does this mean? So the gun went to the Navy, then police service and finally retailed by Geco? Also came with this holster but not sure when this was added? ...

Yes

You have the timeline correctly figured out.

The serial is too high for a US NAVY marking. The Rosslyn location is associated with the OSS. The W on the butt has been discussed before, but I don’t think there is a definite explanation yet.

Baden-Württemberg (the state formerly abbreviated WB), where Heidelberg is located, got these in 1946 and collected them again in the early 1950s, and sold them as surplus. In this case, Geco bought the gun and had it commercially proofed for sale in Germany. Wherever the holster came from, it wasn‘t used by the Germans. Looks British.

 

[Gabriel Possenti]

I wanted to get a Victory Model into your database. I'm not having much luck with pics, but can give this information:

1.) 4" barrel,

2.) 38 smith and wesson special CTG

3.) Serial number: V146061 next to the lanyard loop on the butt.

4.) On the other side of the lanyard loop on the butt is the small flaming bomb symbol. (No other marks like a "W." Just the bomb symbol).

5.) Other markings: A tiny flaming bomb symbol also appears behind the yoke.

The top left strap has no markings like GHD, U.S. Navy, U.S. property, or anything like that. It looks completely plain.

6.) Finish--it smooth like a blued finish, but not as dark. Parkerized finishes that I've seen on other arms aren't as smooth as this. I think it may be the black magic oxide finish

Would it be worth getting a factory letter on this gun?

 

[Absalom]

The top left strap has no markings like GHD, U.S. Navy, U.S. property, or anything like that. It looks completely plain.

6.) Finish--it smooth like a blued finish, but not as dark. Parkerized finishes that I've seen on other arms aren't as smooth as this. I think it may be the black magic oxide finish

Would it be worth getting a factory letter on this gun?

Welcome to the forum.

Without the topstrap marking, your Victory was shipped to a non-military destination like the Maritime Commission, a defense contractor, police department, etc., and a letter could tell you something interesting.

By that serial, V 146061, the original finish could only have been the standard Sandblast Black Magic with a comparatively rough surface texture, and any smooth finish with a surface that appears like a “normal” blued finish indicates a likely refinish.

 

[Gabriel Possenti]

Welcome to the forum.

Without the topstrap marking, your Victory was shipped to a non-military destination like the Maritime Commission, a defense contractor, police department, etc., and a letter could tell you something interesting.

By that serial, V 146061, the original finish could only have been the standard Sandblast Black Magic with a comparatively rough surface texture, and any smooth finish with a surface that appears like a “normal” blued finish indicates a likely refinish.

Thank you for the information. I probably misspoke in calling the finish smooth. It's definitely got more texture than a blued finish.

Here's an attempt to provide pics:

 

[Absalom]

Thank you for the information. I probably misspoke in calling the finish smooth. It's definitely got more texture than a blued finish.

Here's an attempt to provide pics:

Yes, that is indeed a perfectly ordinary Victory finish. This finish is not the same as parkerizing and can indeed appear a bit more shiny, and lighter, especially after some wear. The picture below shows a Victory and a Colt Commando; the latter is actually parkerized, and appears darker and duller.

 

[Gabriel Possenti]

Thanks for the pics, Absalom. I really wasn't sure what that finish was, especially as I started reading about the different types.

Very helpful.

 

[opoefc]

Just received a letter for V176115. It says: "Smith & Wesson .38 Victory Model, US Navy contract, cal. .38 S&W Spl., company records indicate V176115 shipped Dec 1, 1942 to Ft. Mason, CA ( OSS) with 2 inch Bbl. military midnight black finish, butt swivel and smooth walnut grips. Shipment was for 500 units. " Ed.

 

[kwill1911]

Ed,
That should be 300 units. Is it your typo or Roy's? Does the letter actually mention the OSS? Is the top strap marked "UNITED STATES PROPERTY"?
Thanks

 

[opoefc]

Kevin, Letter says 500 units and I got out the invoice and it says 300 units, shipped in 3 cases at $21.00 ea for a total cost of $6300 on Dec. 1, 1942.
, per contract V-478-ORD-2462. The 500 was Roy's typo, apparently. The OSS attribution was my input, as it has no top strap markings. Also, for your research on the finish descriptions on Victory models, the letter say "military midnight black finish" and the invoice says "black magic finish" Ed.

 

[21b o3]

Few serial numbers for DB

Found this at work the other day. According to the other document, these seven revolvers, along with the Colt, were traded for four new 870 Shotguns and 10 shotgun cases. The department Armorer, who was also an FFL dealer handled the transaction. No idea how our agency (Hamilton County, OH Sheriff) got them in the first place. It would be nice to see if anyone out there wound up with any of them. My suspicion is that at least some of them came straight from the factory to the SO as I have seen two that we still have that are in very good condition.

 

[Absalom]

.... My suspicion is that at least some of them came straight from the factory to the SO as I have seen two that we still have that are in very good condition.

The DSC did supply quite a few to police departments during the war. What makes this a bit unlikely here is that the serials are not clustered time-wise, but range from late 1942 to 1944, so unless your department ordered these individually, they were more likely acquired as surplus after the war, which was quite common. Do you know or can you find out whether the two you mention as still being around have US PROPERTY on the topstrap? If so, they were definitely surplus.

 

[21b o3]

The DSC did supply quite a few to police departments during the war. What makes this a bit unlikely here is that the serials are not clustered time-wise, but range from late 1942 to 1944, so unless your department ordered these individually, they were more likely acquired as surplus after the war, which was quite common. Do you know or can you find out whether the two you mention as still being around have US PROPERTY on the topstrap? If so, they were definitely surplus.

Yes, they still have the U.S. Property and Guy H. Drewry acceptance stamp, so they are indeed surplus. Perhaps the almost pristine ones were drawn from unissued war stocks and surplussed out while the others were issued, returned and then surplussed out.