Need a rifle - but limited

[Grimjaws]

So my son lives in NC and has in my mind the perfect set for a SHTF bug out combo
Glock 19 9mm
S&W M&P Sport 5.56
Both common with lots of spare mags and parts out there
Plus he trained on both in the USMC so he's familiar with operating and cleaning them

I live in a restricted state and on a FaceTime video he said," Dad you need a rifle."

He's right. I have a few handguns
HK VP9 and 6 mags our home defense gun (10 rounders)
S&W 19 4" .357 A safe queen
38/44 HD 5" .38
S&W 36 .38 my daily carry
Two long guns
An old Ithaca 37 12 gauge that belonged to her Dad
A nice Henry Golden Boy .22

So in my State the usual AR-15 is pointless.
I'm thinking that an M1 Carbine might fit the bill.
Auto Ordinance has one without any features making it compliant. It comes without a bayonet lug or flash hider and in a 10 round configuration. Now 30 carbine isn't as popular as it used to be but I can access several hundred rounds as my brother in law has one. Plus some surplus sites sell it for a reasonable amount. And I can get some 10 round mags.

Missus and I if forced to leave would head for our son in NC
She could have access to the VP9. She's a lefty I'm a righty so we can both use it. I could carry my 36 and we would both have access to a somewhat simple rifle to use.

Anyone have an M1?
Issues I need to be aware of?
How sharp is recoil?
Any ammo brands to avoid if I buy new?

 

[Rudi]

Outstanding rifles. Virtually no recoil.

 

[galena]

If you can find one take a look at the Remington M-7615. It is a pump action .223 that takes AR15 mags. Mine came with a couple 10 mags but it will take regular AR15 mags of all capacities. They made them for the police market and they didn't sell well. Not sure what the going price is at present but there are some out there.

 

[Buick]

Yes the M1 carbine is an excellent defensive carbine.
Far be it from me to dissuade anyone from owning one (i own two), but may i suggest for your consideration a lever gun in .357 magnum / .38 special. Preferably a Marlin 1894.

 

[Ματθιας]

I have an M1 Carbine. It's not an AO but rather a WW2 Underwood. I don't think recoil is bad at all. With GI surplus mags 15 and 30 rounders it runs with no problems.

I don't know about AO Carbines, so I can't comment about quality, but one issue you may have is with magazines. If you are limited to 10rounders, you're stuck with aftermarket mags - which may or may not function properly. If you buy aftermarket, STAY AWAY FROM PROMAGS - they are poop.

Are Mini 14/30s considered evil assault weapons in NYS? If not, that may be one to consider.

 

[Mule Packer]

An M-1 is certainly a good choice, but I also agree with Buick. A good lever-action rifle in a pistol caliber like a .38/.357 is hard to beat for a couple of reasons.

First, in rifle configuration (vs. carbine) they'll hold more than ten rounds. Second, you can continue to load them or top them off without having to remove a magazine. Third, they're the same caliber as your handgun, so no need to carry additional rounds of a different caliber. And fourth, (which might be significantly important especially where you live) they don't look as ominous as a military type rifle if you have to bug out on foot.

When it comes to ballistics, you're comparing apples to apples. The .30 carbine fires a 110gr RN FMJ to about 1,900fps. The .357mag carbine fires a 158gr JHP or JSP to about 1,900fps. There is a small but distinct advantage to the .357mag in a rifle.

Oh, and one last thing, if the proverbial "ship hits the sand," I'm not sure just how readily available .30 carbine ammo will be, but .38 special and .357 magnum are fairly ubiquitous.

So, there you go. Of course, whether you go with the M-1 or a pistol caliber lever gun, you'll be making a good choice. It's basically a win/win situation. I'm just showing a few advantages with the lever gun.

 

[ContinentalOp]

Not a rifle guy, but my first thought was a lever-action.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

Once we got past the AR I thought that your M-1 carbine choice was pretty doggone good. But if you can get a lever rifle in a pistol caliber to match your S&W revolvers you will be well served. Recoil should not be a problem and you don't need a new caliber of ammunition. Even better if you can get it in carbine length.

 

[lrrifleman]

I second the suggestion of the M1 Carbine. I would like to remind you of a few relevant points:
1. If you move to your son's via NJ, possession of an unregistered carbine has been illegal since May 1992, the last time you could register one was May 1992, and NJ doesn't recognize federal transport laws, so if you pass through NJ and get pulled over for some reason, expect a 5-8 year visit of a NJ prison.
2. An online merchant is selling two different flavors of can quantity 30 carbine for about thirty cents a round.
3. If you shop around for a carbine, remember that the Universal brand carbines don't accept most GI parts (at least that was the case when I purchased my IJ in the late 1980s).
4. You are limited to FMJ rounds for reliable function.
5. The carbine is most effective on close-range threats.

I like the little carbine, but it has it's limitations. Considering how anti-gun NYS has become despite the fact that the majority of the state is rural, I would give serious consideration to a 357 or 44 lever action carbine, such as a Marlin 1894 or a Rossi M92.

 

[vipermd]

Travel

I second the suggestion of the M1 Carbine. I would like to remind you of a few relevant points:
1. If you move to your son's via NJ, possession of an unregistered carbine has been illegal since May 1992, the last time you could register one was May 1992, and NJ doesn't recognize federal transport laws, so if you pass through NJ and get pulled over for some reason, expect a 5-8 year visit of a NJ prison

When you say unregistered carbine, do you mean any semiautomatic rifle??
nj does not have a choice but to recognize FOPA, but he was talking about a SHTF scenario, in which case he would not be concerned with nj BLUE. Be Safe,

 

[Gene L]

I've never owned a M1 carbine, but there's a discussion on the G&A forum now. There's also a Forgotten Weapons video about them and the love/hate of guys who carried them in WW 2. Worth watching. The complaint on the show was the magazines. One of he guys who loved them said they took new magazines WEEKLY, as he said GI mags were not up to snuff and were too thin and easily damaged. Thirty rounds? That's a lot of unprotected magazine sticking below the rifle.

Now I know carbines in civilian use aren't likely to suffer combat damage, it's something to consider.

The M1 carbine was Audie Murphy's favorite personal weapon, and that says a lot in favor of it. I read Murphy shot the gun like a pistol, one handed, up close instinctively.

 

[Bullzaye]

The M1 Carbine is a great little rifle. I have 2 of them. If you really like it and want one...and *if* you know you can get reliable mags that are legal in your area (10 rounders, I presume), and if the cost/expense isn't an issue for you...then why not go for it?

However...given the cost of the carbine, mags, and ammo, *and* the likely very valid concerns about the mags...I would definitely consider a pistol caliber carbine.

The lever action in .357 does seem a good idea, given that you already have a .357.

Actually...if that Ithaca functions properly, and if the Henry is reasonably accurate, you're not really in bad shape. Both of those have you covered to at least 100 yards. Perhaps a more conventional rifle, in something like .308, .30-06, or 7mm, in a scoped hunting rifle configuration, would extend your reach?

If, however...you're just looking for something that's effective out to maybe 150-200 yards-ish, but has semi-auto rates of fire, aside from the M1 Carbine, what about some other PCC? A little research would be required to determine the availability/reliability of 10 round mags. One cost efficient idea, which would allow you to have a pair, one for each of you (if you were so inclined), would be the Hi-Point 9mm carbine.

I know...Hi-Point is a bit of a dirty word around many serious gun enthusiasts. I've never shot one...but they get almost universally good reviews, from many different reviewers. I hear they work quite well with the factory 10 round mags. Since you already have a 9mm, it's not a new caliber for you. You'd probably spend less on 2 Hi-Points, mags, and ammo...than you would on that single M1 Carbine. Probably easier to scope than the M1, also.

Anyway...just food for thought.

 

[GypsmJim]

Hate to be the naysayer but having a SHTF gun of any type just rubs me the wrong way. If the time truly comes we all just need to bend over, put .our head between our legs and kiss our ***** good bye

What bothers me most is that when people prepare for such an event, they may have their motives right, but rarely take the time to be proficient in what they buy. The current trends at massive gun sales to inexperienced people that never owned a gun before is worrisome.

Nevertheless, to answer the OP's question, if the day comes, I'll be carrying a Glock on my hip and a 12 ga. coach gun slung over my shoulder. And yes, I have many years experience with both of them.

 

[hittman77]

Seems the M1 Carbine would be a good choice. Mine cycles everything, no problems. Very light recoil too.

Another you might consider is a rifle I picked up just last week. A Remington 7615 Police ..... short barrel, pump action 223/5.56 and uses AR15 magazines! AR mags and 223 are plentiful plus it's not semi auto, has no tactical look and no bayonet attachment.

 

[pantannojack]

A mentor of mine who flew the back seat of a dive bomber over New Guinea said they use to throw the carbines in the garbage pits preferring the Springfields and Garands if they could find them. That was when the cooks would cook up soap and water to clean out the corrosive primer residue from the bores and gas systems.

 

[max]

I don't believe any US .30 carbine ammo was ever corrosive.

A mentor of mine who flew the back seat of a dive bomber over New Guinea said they use to throw the carbines in the garbage pits preferring the Springfields and Garands if they could find them. That was when the cooks would cook up soap and water to clean out the corrosive primer residue from the bores and gas systems.

 

[gerhard1]

OP, have you thought about the CZ 527 in either 223 or 7.62 x 39?

It is a darned good little carbine with 5-round detachable magazines, and it also has the advantages of being currently made and politically correct to boot.

I have one in each caliber and I love them both.

 

[eveled]

If it hits the fan I'd want a Remington 870 both for its defensive abilities and for game.

 

[Buick]

I don't believe any US .30 carbine ammo was ever corrosive.

As i understand it, no U.S. manufactured carbine ammo was corrosive. I believe some French and definitely Chinese .30 Carbine ammo was corrosive. I have some of the Chinese.

 

[lrrifleman]

When you say unregistered carbine, do you mean any semiautomatic rifle??
nj does not have a choice but to recognize FOPA, but he was talking about a SHTF scenario, in which case he would not be concerned with nj BLUE. Be Safe,

In the 1992 Florio Assault Weapons Ban, the pre-ban ARs, M1 Carbine, AKs, and SKS's (with installed bayonets and detachable magazines were SPECIFICALLY targeted, as were anything substantially identical. Owners were permitted to register M1 Carbines and ARs if they were actively engaged in either NRA or DCM/CMP competitions. After the ban went into effect, a person could own an AR-style rifle only if it were neutered and didn't bear the AR15 logo on the firearm. If a semi-auto rifle doesn't look military, and the detachable magazine held less than sixteen rounds, you were fine. Commercial Browning BARs, Remington Gamemasters (or was it the Woodsmaster) and such were safe.

Yes, technically NJ is obligated to recognize FOPA, but what is exercised and what is the law are not necessarily the same in NJ. For example:
A person traveling through the state with larger than ten round magazines is breaking the law.
A person traveling through the state with hollow points is breaking the law.
People with hollow point key rings have been convicted of illegal possession and sentenced to mandatory 3.5 year minimum sentences.
LEOs carrying hollow points or magazines larger than ten rounds that didn't have arrest authority prior to retirement are denied the protections of LEOSA and are prosecuted.

I know what the federal laws claim, but in NJ, prosecutors (at the behest of the AG) charge and prosecute violations of NJ law then worry about honoring federal law only if they are rebuked upon appeal in federal court.