Carrying Concealed - And a Stranger goes for your weapon

[ArmednDangerous]

Not long ago I had an experience that shook me up a bit. I doubt many people ever think about it, but it happened to me.

I was out at a location I frequent due to my line of work. Often there are a number of "dubious" characters around and over time I knew most of them by name. Most were hardworking but some were real troublemakers with some serious problems in their background.

One day I was at the location when one of the guys I had seen there before and knew a bit about his violent background, approached me to talk about what I do. Because I had talked to him at least a dozen times before, I wasn't on full alert. It seemed friendly and harmless, until out of the clear blue, he lunged at me and put his arms around my waist OBVIOUSLY feeling for a weapon.

On THAT particular day I did not carry but I usually did and I strongly suspect he noticed it one day and decided to pull that stunt later. Because of his background i suspect he was going to try to steal my weapon. I'm 200 lbs and muscular, and this guy was about 230 and about an inch shorter but built like a bouncer.

Keep in mind that if thugs are looking for a concealed carry person, the4y probably know exactly what to look for. That bulge. The extra long T shirt etc.

It honestly happened so fast it was over by the time I realized what he was doing.

He then laughed it off as if he was just joking, but it was no joke. Had I been carrying an all out fight probably would have ensued.

I never went back to that location afterwards because after that I considered it too risky.

But if you have never had anything like this happen to you, it's good to think about it ahead of time. it happened so fast that he was pulling back by the time it registered what he was doing. Less than 2 seconds.

This changed my concealed carry attitude. Now I never allow anyone close enough to go for my concealed weapon. Keep in mind that because so many people do carry concealed, it might not be too difficult for thugs to profile who might be carrying and try to take your weapon.

Imagine if two guys just face punched you as they walked by and then went for your gun.

I didn't think anything like this could happen to me but I was taken by surprise by the speed of it. My advice is if you are carrying, ALWAYS be aware that criminals are out there who may be looking for someone to hit to get their weapon. If there's two, they can be on your REALLY fast and can attack you before you are even aware it's about to happen.

When I conceal carry now, I'm always vigilant to look at whos nearby and I try to always maintain at least 3 ft distance. Even at 3ft, someone can be on you in less than 1 second. I actually try to keep 6ft but it's more difficult as you get around more people. What would you do if someone went for your gun before you were prepared for the attack?

The damnedest thing would be to get shot by your own weapon.

This was an eye opening event for me and I've learned to always be alert because of it.

Have you ever had anything like this happen to you?

 

[ISCS Yoda]

Whew! That's bad juju, bad karma, bad something.

That's a really weird event - most folks don't touch other folks like that or even anything remotely like that.

So, no, it never happened, and I'm a little guy, I don't let large men near me if I don't know them well and know them to be peaceable.

 

[Maurice H]

...one of the guys I had seen there before and knew a bit about his violent background, approached me to talk about what I do. Because I had talked to him at least a dozen times before, I wasn't on full alert. ...out of the clear blue, he lunged at me and put his arms around my waist OBVIOUSLY feeling for a weapon.

"I wasn't on full alert." No you weren't...to allow hands-on!? He was confident in your reaction going into it. You now know how (little) he regards you. No sugar-coating.

 

[ArmednDangerous]

"I wasn't on full alert." No you weren't...to allow hands-on!? He was confident in your reaction going into it. You now know how (little) he regards you. No sugar-coating.

Do you believe no one could touch you in a surprise attack? Are you on "Full Alert" 100% of the time?

I guarantee if someone wanted to they could knock you out cold and you would never know what hit you. The element of surprise is hard to overcome.

We are all vulnerable. Which is why we share stories, CCW, practice and learn.

 

[ArmednDangerous]

Whew! That's bad juju, bad karma, bad something.

That's a really weird event - most folks don't touch other folks like that or even anything remotely like that.

So, no, it never happened, and I'm a little guy, I don't let large men near me if I don't know them well and know them to be peaceable.

Bad karma?
Why does this have to be my fault?
Or, we have a society full of bad players and the odds of you encountering one are increasing.

Yes, weird event. I made the mistake of letting my guard down because he talked about his little girls, and wife and how hard we works and this was months after I first met him so he seemed to not be a threat. If there's a psychologist on the forum they might have figured him sooner, but I don't think anyone else here is immune to surprise attacks like this.

Everyone has a story. Road rage, home invasion, robbery...something. Few of us get out of here with a perfectly clean slate.

As far as not letting large men close to you....best friends and brothers have been known to kill one another. It happens.
Wonderful people sometimes fall victim. Kate Steinle

 

[Smoke]

I've worked as a security guard for the last 12 years and yes I have had people try to take my gun off me. In accordance with all my training the general assumption is the first thing somebody's going to do if they get your gun off you is shoot you with it. A gun grab is considered a deadly threat and it is responded to accordingly.

I don't understand your story. You originally said that you had to go to that location because of your work. Later you said since the incident happened you never went back there because you deemed it too risky. If the choice was yours and you knew that the area was shady you shouldn't have been there in the first place.


I am not on "FULL ALERT" 100% of the time. I'm not even on "FULL ALERT 100% of the time at work. It's not possible. However there are places that I'm required to go to because of my job that I wouldn't be caught dead in off the clock. In those places I am on full alert. Granted, in my situation it's a little bit different because anybody I run into isn't supposed to be there and I have the authority to tell them to leave BUT I don't allow them into my space and I will tell them to back up.

Bottom line if I don't know you I don't let you put me in that position. Setting appropriate boundaries is a really good way to tell if somebody is up to no good or not. It's been my experience that ignoring social boundaries is a pretty reliable preassault indicator.

Finally, If I'm already in a position where I'm not feeling comfortable and you reach for me or grab for me or whatever it's on. That is something I would take really seriously. If the guy had time to grab you and frisk you you had time to react.

 

[Porkie]

You clearly are not projecting a correct persona to support your 'handle' on this site. Presumably not correct for your line of work either. Most men don't need guidance about letting a stranger, big enough to throw you over his shoulder and walk off with you, to touch you.

Go back to basics about , stop wearing gun until you figure it out and get back to us when you've tested the changes.

Regards, Porkie

 

[Smoke]

You clearly are not projecting a correct persona to support your 'handle' on this site. Presumably not correct for your line of work either. Most men don't need guidance about letting a stranger, big enough to throw you over his shoulder and walk off with you, to touch you.

Go back to basics about , stop wearing gun until you figure it out and get back to us when you've tested the changes.

Regards, Porkie

There is some truth to this. If you can't defend your gun you should not be carrying it

 

[moosedog]

A good example of of why not to open carry, makes it even easier for a gun grab.

Never let anyone get within your reaction gap which is about 4 feet and never turn your back on someone close when carrying.
You can usually see a gun grab attempt coming if you watch peoples eyes. They will look at your waist line to try and visually locate it before they strike. If someone grabs you like that, the best defense is to gouge their eyes out. Your lucky.

 

[Johnnu2]

In my humble opinion, I believe that there are people who are fast enough to get almost anyone's gun. We may think we are fast enough and alert enough, but I know of at least one incident where it's hard to believe how fast these guys were. Many years ago, the owner of a large plumbing supply business in the Bronx (that's NY )), let everyone know (for years) that he carried (concealed and legally). One morning, while driving out of his supply yard to go on an errand, two guys pulled open his (unlocked) car door while it was moving into the busy street. They yanked him out and grabbed his gun AND his wallet. They were gone and never caught. You may think you are fast and smart, but concealed (or not), you are also a TARGET. There is always someone faster...
IMHO of course,
J.

 

[FlyFish]

Like just about everything else in life, there are no absolutes or guarantees here, but it's possible to reduce the probability of an attempted gun grab and, if one occurs, that it's successful. Although I try to be reasonably alert, I recognize - and I think that anyone who's really honest with themselves will also recognize - that it's just not possible 100% of the time. So, in addition I (1) never open carry even though it's fully legal here and (arguably) acceptable, (2) make some effort to avoid printing - the average person likely wouldn't notice anyway, but a potential gun grabber probably would, and (3) using a retention holster. I've thought about, but rejected, carrying a gun with a safety because a thief might waste time figuring out how to turn it off, and even going to co-called "Israeli carry" - full magazine but empty chamber - which would really slow a thief down. While both of those options would further reduce the risk of a grabbed gun being used against me, they would, IMHO, unacceptably raise the risk of other unwanted outcomes.

 

[Kurusu]

In my humble opinion, I believe that there are people who are fast enough to get almost anyone's gun. We may think we are fast enough and alert enough, but I know of at least one incident where it's hard to believe how fast these guys were. Many years ago, the owner of a large plumbing supply business in the Bronx (that's NY )), let everyone know (for years) that he carried (concealed and legally). One morning, while driving out of his supply yard to go on an errand, two guys pulled open his (unlocked) car door while it was moving into the busy street. They yanked him out and grabbed his gun AND his wallet. They were gone and never caught. You may think you are fast and smart, but concealed (or not), you are also a TARGET. There is always someone faster...
IMHO of course,
J.

This is not really about "fast". If you let yourself get "jumped" by someone you already lost. If the attacker wanted to kill the OP he would be dead by now.

Consider that some atackers, if they want your gun, will have no problems whatsoever retrieving it from your corpse after killing you.

The real weapon is between your ears. Guns are just tools.

 

[federali]

Condition Yellow

I've seen a number of gun takeaways captured on surveillance footage and the thought is scary. For one, I never open-carry and I do my best to carry totally concealed. I always try to know who is around me, particularly while standing in a cash register line with strangers behind me. I tend to angle my body a bit so that my left side is approximately facing the guy behind me (I carry on the right side) making it more difficult for that person to attempt a sudden takeaway.

 

[AlHunt]

It honestly happened so fast it was over by the time I realized what he was doing.

----

it happened so fast that he was pulling back by the time it registered what he was doing. Less than 2 seconds.

This is the element that's hard to plan for, in my opinion. Attacks often come from ambush. In your case, you got complacent. Very often it comes from around a corner or when a person is distracted opening a car door or some other kind of transition point.

As said above, nobody can be on high alert 100% of the time.

 

[ArmednDangerous]

In my humble opinion, I believe that there are people who are fast enough to get almost anyone's gun. We may think we are fast enough and alert enough, but I know of at least one incident where it's hard to believe how fast these guys were. Many years ago, the owner of a large plumbing supply business in the Bronx (that's NY )), let everyone know (for years) that he carried (concealed and legally). One morning, while driving out of his supply yard to go on an errand, two guys pulled open his (unlocked) car door while it was moving into the busy street. They yanked him out and grabbed his gun AND his wallet. They were gone and never caught. You may think you are fast and smart, but concealed (or not), you are also a TARGET. There is always someone faster...
IMHO of course,
J.

This is more common than thought. And unfortunately, some here are jumping to defend their egos and place blame and deny it could happen to them, rather than take the lesson at face value.

You are exactly correct. And everyone here blaming me are vulnerable to have it happen to them. There are no exceptions.

Thinking that because you might be carrying a gun makes you invincible is utterly ridiculous. If that was the case, why would cops ever get shot? In fact, I've seen stories of cops ambushed and shot with their own gun. COPS !!

IMPD officer shot with his own gun during incident
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YDGGKjliQU[/ame]

Baltimore Officer Killed With Own Gun: New Details Emerge
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7xgjLJXO_w[/ame]

Fort Myers Police Officer shot by suspect with his own gun
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKYirBmsDPc[/ame]

I will say that there's no one at this forum who could have done any differently even though from the sidelines, they think otherwise. As I said, it happened in less than 2 seconds.

A wise person will read my account and learn from it.
I didn't post it to get an earful of how stupid I am or that I should re consider carrying. As the evidence above clearly shows, it could happen to ANYONE.

As far as suggestions that I reconsider carrying.....tell that to the cops who have had it happen to them. The stories are plentiful....just search YouTube.

 

[ArmednDangerous]

This is not really about "fast". If you let yourself get "jumped" by someone you already lost. If the attacker wanted to kill the OP he would be dead by now.

Consider that some atackers, if they want your gun, will have no problems whatsoever retrieving it from your corpse after killing you.

The real weapon is between your ears. Guns are just tools.

You don't "Let" yourself get jumped.

It's called an AMBUSH, and many cops are dead because of it.
You are not exempt and it could happen to you at any time.

 

[Kurusu]

You don't "Let" yourself get jumped.

It's called an AMBUSH, and many cops are dead because of it.
You are not exempt and it could happen to you at any time.

For your information. Most of the time I don't even carry.

Edit. Please give me your definition of "ambush".

 

[Borderboss]

It's not for me to comment on the OP's situation or what he did or didn't do correctly. Opinions are like, well, you know. But here's my 2 cents on how I would try to defeat the situation.

First, I would not be in a place where I knew bad actors were frequently there. If it's job related, I would find another one. No job is worth getting hurt or killed over.

Second, I've recently started carrying OC spray as part of my EDC. In a situation like the OP encountered, it may have been possible, and certainly would have been appropriate, to spray the guy in the face. No one except family or close friends has the right to lay hands on my without my permission. So some non-lethal but effective response can handle that situation usually, or at least long enough for you to get distance and draw to prevent a follow-up attack.

 

[ArmednDangerous]

For your information. Most of the time I don't even carry.
Edit. Please give me your definition of "ambush".

I was not carrying that day either.

I don't wish it on anyone, but people are ambushed all the time.
Even cops. See post below.

When you get ambushed, you'll know (if you survive)

 

[Kurusu]

I was not carrying that day either.

I don't wish it on anyone, but people are ambushed all the time.
Even cops. See post below.

When you get ambushed, you'll know (if you survive)

I already got ambushed. I'm still here.