The Model 19 "Controversy"

[Breakaway500]

Thousands of .357 Magnum rounds shot through this 19-3 including some scary hot reloads from friends. Still as smooth and accurate as day one.

I know it's a model 19 because it says so on the buttplate..

It still gets shot a lot..with full power rounds. It ain't scared and neither am I.

 

[Neversink n Klapperthal]

I had a six inch 19 in the mid 70s,that was my main shooter. Magnum Smiths were very hard to find at that time,you know. Well, I loaded em hot back them. Lost count of how many thousand rounds went through it,but no damage to report

 

[old tanker]

I too have a Model 19 that has seen its share of .357 magnums, factory and handload. Again the bulk of those have been heavy bullets, like the 358429. No cracks.

I tried a few of the fire breathing 125 grain screamers when our local PD went to them. The firearms instructor there was big "train like you fight" proponent and all their practice and range qualification was done with that ammo. No powder puff wadcutters on his range.

Seems to me that was about the time they saw some problems. Within a couple of years, he retired and the department decided the 9mm was the "finger of death" and went with some flavor of Glock.

I still think the widespread use of the hot 125 grain .357 ammo that became popular around the late Seventies damaged more revolvers than the classic 158 grain SWC loads did.

 

[K Frame Keith]

I don't understand the need some have to fire only the most powerful rounds possible from a given firearm, when often a more moderate round is more effective for a given purpose. An example is full house .357 magnums out of a 2 inch J frame. Not the most efficient use of powder. The K frame magnums were never designed for the exclusive use of magnum ammo and never for the later light weight high velocity loads. I still think it was an excellent duty weapon compromise.

 

[Babysitr]

My 19-3 gets .38 158's....an old buddys brother bought a new 66 back in the day and the only rounds it shot were hot and hotter 357's...good thing for him, you could easily still find barrels when it cracked.....no fault of the gun...

 

[Doug M.]

Forum member Nyeti has posted elsewhere his experiences with K, L, and N frames based on a lot of rounds downrange. My recollection is that he largely restricts his K frames to shooting .38s. I do too, for many reasons - but I appreciate the fact that I can shoot .357s out of my M66 if I find it to be of value to do so.

 

[Dave686]

The K-frames were terrible! I have a service of taking them off peoples hands; I’ll even throw a few bucks your way if they are really nice and the frames aren’t all cracked up and the forcing cones destroyed.

Just kidding…. In 50 years of shooting I’ve never had a problem with a K-frame. Of course I’m sure, like with anything mechanical, there have been problems with some.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

I have posted this before. 1986. Shooting my 4" nickel 19 with 150 gr cast reloads. forcing cone split and locked up the gun. I bought a replacement barrel. Made frame blocks and changed it out. Hardest part of the job was getting the barrel pin out. Still got it. Still shoot it......some.
BTW: My 66 from that era(that I still have) has never given any problems.

 

[oink]

I guess this is one of those reoccurring topics. Anyhow, the departments I was with, we practiced with 38s. For quals, if you wanted to carry 38s you qualified with 38s and had numerous trys. If you wanted to carry mags you got one try. If you failed you had to qualify with 38s, unless of course you were high brass, in which case some accommodation would be made. Overall it seemed mostly reasonable.

 

[Old Corp]

My first duty revolvers were Colt Trooper MKIII's and then the S&W M66, but our duty loads were always .38 Spl. +P.
Now, being young, a gun geek and reloader, I ran lots of magnums of all bullet weights through my 66 and it never seemed to balk.

- Now, I'm wondering how much internet traffic could win the topic of most discussed? - M19's forcing cone cracking or the whole 'Can my .38 shoot +P's?
It may very well be a toss-up.

 

[Kid44]

I believe if you do a search in the
S&W Forum you'll find several threads
explaining why the older Model 19s
failed. Chief culprit was the use of
lightweight magnums such as the
125 grainers.

That is exactly the way I understand it too, the 125 grain loads caused the majority of the issues. Not to say the others won't cause problems but the 125 gr. seem to be the biggest culprit.

 

[rockquarry]

My first duty revolvers were Colt Trooper MKIII's and then the S&W M66, but our duty loads were always .38 Spl. +P.
Now, being young, a gun geek and reloader, I ran lots of magnums of all bullet weights through my 66 and it never seemed to balk.

- Now, I'm wondering how much internet traffic could win the topic of most discussed? - M19's forcing cone cracking or the whole 'Can my .38 shoot +P's?
It may very well be a toss-up.

Lots of contenders for "most discussed" threads. Results are always the same and always predictable. Nothing changes. Some participants have much experience and know what they're talking, some have little experience which isn't worth much, some have no experience but they are Internet-educated on the subject; again, not worth much, while others have no knowledge of the subject matter and won't ever, but can't pass up the competitive opportunity to argue a point.

As for bullet weights in a .357 Magnum (or .38 Special) revolver, why use any weight other than what the cartridge was designed for - 158 grains? The only real disadvantage I can see is the heavier bullet will cause slightly greater recoil than a lighter bullet, something easily managed with practice.

 

[WCCPHD]

My first duty revolvers were Colt Trooper MKIII's and then the S&W M66, but our duty loads were always .38 Spl. +P.
Now, being young, a gun geek and reloader, I ran lots of magnums of all bullet weights through my 66 and it never seemed to balk.

- Now, I'm wondering how much internet traffic could win the topic of most discussed? - M19's forcing cone cracking or the whole 'Can my .38 shoot +P's?
It may very well be a toss-up.

Will run a distant second to "What caliber for bear?"

 

[Neversink n Klapperthal]

I think the forcing cone on the Python isnt much stouter than the 19s. Is there a similar problem with Pythons?

 

[stansdds]

I think the forcing cone on the Python isnt much stouter than the 19s. Is there a similar problem with Pythons?

Colt forcing cones have been known to crack, as have forcing cones on Rugers. From the pictures I've seen, regardless of which maker or model of revolver, they all significant erosion of the forcing cone. I'm talking about erosion that extends to about half the thickness of the forcing cone. When you get to that degree of erosion with the K-frame S&W, you are looking at a very thin bit of uneroded steel at the bottom of the forcing cone.

 

[Drm50]

Forcing cone issues aside, the M19 was to give Cops 357 mag power in a package that was sensible to carry all day. The magnum loads are hard on them regardless of bullet weight. It’s the old trade off, less weight for less durability. The bulk of these revolvers owned by the public never are shot enough to make this a factor. Only guys that shoot magnum loads are cops and hunters.

 

[dogdoc]

How about new j frame magnums. Thinner cone than 19/66? Cone cracking can occur but I suspect greatly overstated on the internet

 

[pmosley]

With today's ammo prices and availability, all of my K-frames are likely safe........

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk

 

[S-W4EVER]

I don't understand the need some have to fire only the most powerful rounds possible from a given firearm, when often a more moderate round is more effective for a given purpose...

+1. I agree, my agency went to the 38 Special +P+ based on CHP’s research (CHP even made a training film). We carried Model 28’s at the time. I don’t remember any failures with the round.

 

[rubiranch]

I don't understand the need some have to fire only the most powerful rounds possible from a given firearm,

Because its fun.

Wouldn't that be like owing a really fast car and never holding the pedal to the floor??

I had two 19-2s, a 4" and a 6".

For some reason I didn't cared for the 4" and sold the 6" ANIB.

I love my 6" 66-1 that has had 1000s of .357s go down the barrel.

I thought the problem with the 19s forcing cone was caused by shooting early extremely hot LE loads??