Picking Up an Early Combat Magnum Tomorrow

[Retired W4]

Auction house pictures can be deceiving at times so time will tell, and that time is tomorrow. Wow, sounds like something Kamala would say. I hope it's unburdened by the past. Joking aside, this one is in the mid-K260 range and I'm wondering if all of the early CM's came with target stocks. All the pictures I've seen of them showed targets. Any way, once I get it home and wipe the drool off I'll get some pictures to post. In the mean time, any ideas on those stocks?

 

[Muley Gil]

Target stocks were standard.

 

[Retired W4]

Target stocks were standard.

Thank you Gil. That is the answer I was hoping for. To be continued.

 

[JP@AK]

I could be wrong, but I think the earliest Combat Magnum units came with Walnut Targets. Soon after, they switched to GA.

 

[Gun Relics]

Auction house pictures can be deceiving at times so time will tell, and that time is tomorrow. Wow, sounds like something Kamala would say. I hope it's unburdened by the past. Joking aside, this one is in the mid-K260 range and I'm wondering if all of the early CM's came with target stocks. All the pictures I've seen of them showed targets. Any way, once I get it home and wipe the drool off I'll get some pictures to post. In the mean time, any ideas on those stocks?

The pre-19's came with walnut target stocks with a tight outline radius on the lower checkering. My S & W HF letters say "walnut target stocks" as well. (I have a couple in that same range).

 

[DARE]

Congrats on your new acquisition.
I have an AMC dated January 1, 1956. It says Checked walnut Target stocks for the Combat Magnum.
I have a parts list, KT-357 for the Combat Magnum dated January 1, 1957. It says Target Stocks (standard on this model).
I have a Model 19 manual dated January 1, 1960. It says Goncalo Alves Target Stocks.
Here is my early production Combat Magnum K261590 shipped August 16, 1956. My letter says walnut target stocks.

 

[Retired W4]

I have K316720 (no ship date) that came to me with targets of some sort, possibly GA. Headed out in a couple hours to pick up the new one.

 

[Retired W4]

One other question please. There seems to be an overlap in the production of the non-relieved targets (NRT, 1951/52-1958) and the relieved type (1956 and beyond). Which would have been installed in the first half of 1956 on the CM? I doubt a letter would distinguish between the two.

 

[handejector]

They came with football stocks.

 

[Retired W4]

They came with football stocks.

Thanks Lee.

 

[Retired W4]

Here is one picture of it. These are NRT's on it now, which is incorrect but the right time frame. SNW19_357 reminded me that I did request a ship date for K316720. I was going to put them side by side but I misplaced the other one. One of these days I will get organized.

 

[Gun Relics]

That one is primo! I also collect model 19's. The correct grips come up for sale on ebay and go for around $200 - $250 a pair. I keep a couple pairs on hand. The pre-model original boxes are a bit harder to come by.

 

[Engine49guy]

Few things in life bring such pleasure as finding a clean early Combat Magnum !
It seems the football cut targets appear about the same time as the Combat Magnum, since the 22lr and 38 casings tended to ding the non releived stocks and .357 cases are longer my guess is the two things are probably related.
Add to this that the earliest promo shots show the Combat Magnum wearing non relieved stocks ( taken in 1955) but the earliest ones shipped in 1956 are found with football cut stocks kinda supports that belief IMO.
Just checked and have your Serial K 316720 in my notes but no ship date, closest one to yours is
Serial K 317946 Shipped May, 1958 and has no model marking.
Imo the stocks on your K316720 posted are actually from the mid 60's due to their rounded heel radius.

 

[Retired W4]

K316720 shipped March of 1958 with all the features found on a 19 ND with a 10 groove back strap. Go figure.

 

[Engine49guy]

The 6 groove tangs did not last very long highest one in my notes is ,
K26159X August 16, 1956.

Lowest 10 groove in my notes is:
K26167X July 2, 1956 , Nickel 10 grooves.

Interesting the higher serial nickel 10 groove shipped a month before the lower serial blue 6 groove by about a month, my guess is that was the very first nickel CM run.

On a side note I have never seen or heard of a nickel 6 groove Combat Magnum.

 

[snw19_357]

Neither have I. Vast majority (except K26167x) of the nickel pres are in the K264's.

K26167x is a unique and special revolver. Unfortunately I have not seen a letter on it.
K261673 is the highest 6 groove I have seen.

 

[JP@AK]

I believe that K316819 is the lowest number on a known Model 19. There are Combat Magnum units with higher serial numbers without the model mark. The next lowest number on my list with a model number is K317348. The next lowest number after that is K318968 (shipped on August 22, 1958). Again, there are several in between these numbers that are not model marked.

 

[Retired W4]

I believe S&W was pretty busy during the 1956-1958 time frame, what with the advent of the Combat Magnum, 44 Magnum and the switch from named models to model numbers.

 

[snw19_357]

I believe that K316819 is the lowest number on a known Model 19. There are Combat Magnum units with higher serial numbers without the model mark.

 

[JP@AK]

Thank you, snw19_357, for the update! Now added to my data. The statement I made earlier (and which you quoted) is based on information I acquired in December 2019. I had not seen anything to contradict or augment it until now.

 

[Engine49guy]

I believe S&W was pretty busy during the 1956-1958 time frame, what with the advent of the Combat Magnum, 44 Magnum and the switch from named models to model numbers.

Since we know frames were built in batches not in serial order my guess is the ones without Model numbers were already in the vault or final assembly past that point on the day the model marking began.

It might be a good time to mention that the initial production order for Combat Magnums was supposed to be 5000 units ( way higher than the 4" .44 Magnums) and they set aside the serial range of K260000 to K265000, it is also interesting that the serial numbers between K265000 and wherever they picked back up ( Guessing K316000 ish?) were used on other K target frames like K38 and K22.
In my notes have:
K265322 is a K22 (Pre 17) shipped August of 1956
Also have:
K264854 KT357 (Pre 19) shipped December 1956
Im speculating that they shipped Combat Magnums from the first run throughout 1957 although I have a hole in my database in that area.
My database then jumps to:
K317204 shipped March 1958.
Has me wondering how many were built in the second batch and if they reserved another block of serials or are they comingled?
From my notes:

Model 18 , Blue, Barrel 4"
Serial K334388
Shipped Nov 1958

Model 19, Blue, Barrel 4" Serial K 345422
Shipped Aug 1959

 

[Retired W4]

Life would be so much easier if S&W serial numbers were more like Colt and other gun makers.

 

[444 Magnum]

Life would be so much easier if S&W serial numbers were more like Colt and other gun makers.

Like Marlin...no records from 1906-1939?

or Winchester...1906-1940's are sketchy. No records on the collectible rimfires. I would love to be able to pull records on some of my less common Model 61 variations.

Not a single record available for any of these....just year of manufacture.

 

[boykinlp]

Here is one picture of it. These are NRT's on it now, which is incorrect but the right time frame. SNW19_357 reminded me that I did request a ship date for K316720. I was going to put them side by side but I misplaced the other one. One of these days I will get organized.
View attachment 780990

I look forward to seeing more pictures when you get it.
Larry

 

[Retired W4]

My letter for K260528 arrived today. It is a first year CM as I thought. June 27, 1956. I had hoped it went to some one famous but no, R S Elliott Arms Company. They were ordering the good stuff, six 3 1/2" 357's, Three 5" 357's, one 8 3/8" 357, five 6 1/2" 44 Magnums and five of these Combat Magnums. I wish I had been there when they arrived but I was only 8 years old and didn't quite have enough money in my piggy bank.

 

[doublesharp]

Very nice W4. This old shooter grade CM came to me with Rosewood grips. reflection makes it look a little better than it is.

 

[Engine49guy]

My letter for K260528 arrived today. It is a first year CM as I thought. June 27, 1956. I had hoped it went to some one famous but no, R S Elliott Arms Company. They were ordering the good stuff, six 3 1/2" 357's, Three 5" 357's, one 8 3/8" 357, five 6 1/2" 44 Magnums and five of these Combat Magnums. I wish I had been there when they arrived but I was only 8 years old and didn't quite have enough money in my piggy bank.
View attachment 791890

Very nice early gun,
Just added to my database.
Btw, Are those the stocks from your Model marked 19 ?
Correct era diamond targets would have the sharp radius turn at the heel IMO.

 

[Retired W4]

Very nice early gun,
Just added to my database.
Btw, Are those the stocks from your Model marked 19 ?
Correct era diamond targets would have the sharp radius turn at the heel IMO.

Same ones I had on K316720. I just shuffled them around.

Edit to note: K316720 is not model marked, although it looks like a model 19. Shipped March, 1958, IAW Roy.

 

[Gun Relics]

Very nice early gun,
Just added to my database.
Btw, Are those the stocks from your Model marked 19 ?
Correct era diamond targets would have the sharp radius turn at the heel IMO.

And walnut - are those goncalo alves?

 

[Engine49guy]

Same ones I had on K316720. I just shuffled them around.

Edit to note: K316720 is not model marked, although it looks like a model 19. Shipped March, 1958, IAW Roy.

My friend Kris refers to the ones that shipped during the model marked era that got through without a model stamp as "Non model marked Model 19's" .