Current FBI Training/Service 9MM

[wood714]

So do the 50 round boxes of Federal 147gr P9HST2 I buy, and they are unobtainable in retail stores around here, but I've ordered them online. I'm not LEO and the "LEO only" label isn't anything legal for end users to be concerned about.

I've bought a lot of 50 round Winchester Ranger T ammo from SOSS.

They won't sell the new above ammo to anyone unless you have some kinda proof your LEO. But if you go to their section of vintage/used ammo you can buy all the 50 round boxes of Ranger T you want in 9 and 40 that's police trade in ammo.

At least back in the day when you could buy ammo.

 

[wood714]

The HST is probably the most widely used load in the US right now behind Speer Gold Dots. There is no reason not to use it.

Do they make special runs of HST ammo for LEO or military?

I have several 50 round plain white boxes of it, and is brass cases instead of nickel.

 

[29-1]

I haven't been around any FBI agents for 25 years or so. Are they still wearing 3-button business suits, crisp white shirts, boring neckties, and snap-brim fedoras?

So many new options in wardrobe and accessories. Must be difficult to keep up.

I'm certain the 2 Special Agents with families, including kids aged 4-11, that died in Ft Lauderdale while attempting to serve a search warrant in a crimes against children case weren't dressed as you suggested. I'm assuming you wouldn't be either.
Chuck

 

[Green Frog]

This may be a bit of a branch from the main topic, but what about the late, but once highly touted Lawman ammo from CCI back in the '80s? Was it really anything like as good as its advertising would lead one to believe?

And of course there was the Black Talon of the next decade...

It seems like we are always chasing the "Next BEST Thing."

Froggie

 

[Nevada Ed]

No, the G2 lasted about a year was all. The Hornady was supposedly the preferred round from the beginning, but contract bidding issues kept it from winning the contract. These boxes are from a FBI field office. This was the packaging for the Hornady in 2018. I do not have the 45. Supposedly, all 45s are being phased out to include personally owned.

The new 2015 Speer Gold Dot 147 gr ammo was at the Salt Lake, Utah seminar, where LE personnel could learn about it.
The one problem with this load, was that it needed a 6" barrel to get a working fps and most LE carry a 4 or maybe a 5" pistol.

 

[ContinentalOp]

This may be a bit of a branch from the main topic, but what about the late, but once highly touted Lawman ammo from CCI back in the '80s? Was it really anything like as good as its advertising would lead one to believe?

FWIW, Lawman is still my go-to range ammo. I only get something else if I can't find it.

 

[Green Frog]

FWIW, Lawman is still my go-to range ammo. I only get something else if I can't find it.

Is Lawman still in production or are you shooting old stock? I just have a single sealed box each of 9mm (50 rd) and 45 (25 rd) that I found in Dad's stash after he passed. These were the fancy yellow plastic boxes.

Froggie

 

[Green Frog]

OK, I looked it up and Speer is making full jacket flat point rounds and calling them "Lawman." I was referring to the ones from the eighties that had massive hollow points. I've heard them called "Flying Ashtrays."

Froggie

 

[ContinentalOp]

OK, I looked it up and Speer is making full jacket flat point rounds and calling them "Lawman." I was referring to the ones from the eighties that had massive hollow points. I've heard them called "Flying Ashtrays."

Froggie

Gotcha. No, I was posting about the TMJ rounds. I know of the "Flying Ashtray" rounds, but either didn't know or forgot they were called Lawman. I may be mistaken, but I believe those rounds eventually evolved into the Gold Dots. Maybe. *shrug*

 

[stansdds]

OK, I looked it up and Speer is making full jacket flat point rounds and calling them "Lawman." I was referring to the ones from the eighties that had massive hollow points. I've heard them called "Flying Ashtrays."

Froggie

That was good ammo, assuming it would reliably feed.

I don't know what the FBI currently uses nor do I really care. What has earned itself a good reputation in actual use are the Federal HST, the Speer Gold Dot (not the Gold Dot 2), and the Winchester Ranger T loads. Thankfully, I have some of these loads on hand and I practice with them very, very sparingly these days as they are now pretty much unobtainable, at least at anything near reasonable cost.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

I'm certain the 2 Special Agents with families, including kids aged 4-11, that died in Ft Lauderdale while attempting to serve a search warrant in a crimes against children case weren't dressed as you suggested. I'm assuming you wouldn't be either.
Chuck

I offer my most sincere apology to those who found my bit of FBI humor offensive.

 

[DR505]

I offer my most sincere apology to those who found my bit of FBI humor offensive.

Apology accepted. In my entire career (now retired) I never ran across a single agent that dressed like that. I know I never dressed like that.

It was always easy to pick out the new agents in the post-Hoover FBI: look for Khaki 5.11's, a polo shirt, and a silly photographer's vest or some such covering the sidearm.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

Apology accepted. In my entire career (now retired) I never ran across a single agent that dressed like that. I know I never dressed like that.

It was always easy to pick out the new agents in the post-Hoover FBI: look for Khaki 5.11's, a polo shirt, and a silly photographer's vest or some such covering the sidearm.

I am also retired. My LE career started during the Hoover years, and agents might just as well have been wearing uniforms. I don't recall seeing casual attire, not even a sport coat instead of a business suit, until the early 1980s or so. The fedoras were long gone before that.

 

[sigp220.45]

Apology accepted. In my entire career (now retired) I never ran across a single agent that dressed like that. I know I never dressed like that.

It was always easy to pick out the new agents in the post-Hoover FBI: look for Khaki 5.11's, a polo shirt, and a silly photographer's vest or some such covering the sidearm.

I always liked the shoulder holster/Mardi Gras shirt/dead fish combo.

I later adopted the Aloha shirt over Homer Simpson tee look.

Suits were for court.

 

[rockquarry]

Apology accepted. In my entire career (now retired) I never ran across a single agent that dressed like that. I know I never dressed like that.

It was always easy to pick out the new agents in the post-Hoover FBI: look for Khaki 5.11's, a polo shirt, and a silly photographer's vest or some such covering the sidearm.

Lots of cops of all kinds used to wear those goofy vests with the many pockets. Like fanny packs, the vests screamed, "I'm carrying a pistol and not trying very hard to conceal it!"

 

[triaxle]

This was a good post ,

 

[Darkenfast]

I have some of those Hornady +p 135-grainers. I've yet to shoot any of them (and glad I didn't, considering the current situation), but assuming they are reliable, I feel they are a good choice for longer barreled pistols such as my Glock 17L with its six-inch barrel.

 

[IAM Rand]

Since when did the FBI become the gold standard? They do a $%*& ton of testing which is great..........until it comes to the real world. I wish they would spend more time and $$ on training than testing. They have gone the long way around the block. From 9mm to 40/10mm to 45 and back to 9mm. I am sure I am missing 357 Sig in there somewhere.

Stop worrying about the jello shots and the fancy bullets in the fancy guns. Find a good gun with good bullets and train, train, train and then train some more. I don't think I have ever heard of a bad guy complaining what gun was used or what bullets were used.

 

[dnater]

I haven't been around any FBI agents for 25 years or so. Are they still wearing 3-button business suits, crisp white shirts, boring neckties, and snap-brim fedoras?

So many new options in wardrobe and accessories. Must be difficult to keep up.

Around '86-'87 no one wore fedoras in my office. I preferred 2 button jackets on my suits. Did have white shirts since I worked on a white collar crime squad...

 

[shawn mccarver]

I haven't been around any FBI agents for 25 years or so. Are they still wearing 3-button business suits, crisp white shirts, boring neckties, and snap-brim fedoras?

So many new options in wardrobe and accessories. Must be difficult to keep up.

What does a comment about the attire of FBI agents have to do with this thread, which is about their 9mm Service and Reduced Lead Training ammo?