Agreed, but this is a scandium frame. From the two aluminum j frames I've worn out (model 38 and a 642) the problem area is the frame where the barrel screws in, usually it cracks and looks like a little scratch at first).
The end of my 340SC saga, AKA my last modern S&W
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Agreed, but this is a scandium frame. From the two aluminum j frames I've worn out (model 38 and a 642) the problem area is the frame where the barrel screws in, usually it cracks and looks like a little scratch at first).
Horseapple
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If it is worn from use why would you expect it to be warranted?
Do you think a cylinder retaining lug that cannot take normal use is not a manufacturing/material defect? This is a scandium J frame, not a 100k round competition gun that's shot to death.
Poor warranty service honestly, and a poor design.
Its rather obvious that there is minimal engagement of the cylinder with the cylinder stop because of a poor design. If you notice the cylinder stop tapers toward the bottom, but that is where the cylinder engages the stop... it is attractive, but not overly functional.
With tolerance stacking, it doesn't take much for the cylinder to override the stop, crane to frame, and on down the line. A poor design IMHO, and with very little material to prevent the cylinder from overriding the stop, and when that's gone on the face of the cylinder stop, it makes a nice ramp for the cylinder to ride up on the stop... bad!
So yes, a reasonable customer would expect Smith and Wesson to fulfill their obligation under a "life time warranty"...
and I'm NOT buying a Ruger, I've owned several, and had two good ones, an early 44 Mag Flattop from 1961. I bought a new 5" stainless Super Black Hawk that was a heavy, uncomfortable thing to shoot...
It would not group inside 5"s with any load, I sold it to a friend who was sure he could build a handload it would like, NO LUCK!!
that early Black Hawk was gorgeous , and would group into one hole all day with everything. I traded it for a Colt New Frontier with a 45 Colt and an ACP cylinder... that was a disappointment.
Its rather obvious that there is minimal engagement of the cylinder with the cylinder stop because of a poor design. If you notice the cylinder stop tapers toward the bottom, but that is where the cylinder engages the stop... it is attractive, but not overly functional.
With tolerance stacking, it doesn't take much for the cylinder to override the stop, crane to frame, and on down the line. A poor design IMHO, and with very little material to prevent the cylinder from overriding the stop, and when that's gone on the face of the cylinder stop, it makes a nice ramp for the cylinder to ride up on the stop... bad!
So yes, a reasonable customer would expect Smith and Wesson to fulfill their obligation under a "life time warranty"...
and I'm NOT buying a Ruger, I've owned several, and had two good ones, an early 44 Mag Flattop from 1961. I bought a new 5" stainless Super Black Hawk that was a heavy, uncomfortable thing to shoot...
It would not group inside 5"s with any load, I sold it to a friend who was sure he could build a handload it would like, NO LUCK!!
that early Black Hawk was gorgeous , and would group into one hole all day with everything. I traded it for a Colt New Frontier with a 45 Colt and an ACP cylinder... that was a disappointment.
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CA Escapee
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Actually, it's an aluminum alloy frame with scandium in it. A pinch of scandium is added to aluminum so when the frame stretches when fired it will return to it's original machined dimensions longer instead of staying stretched and distorted. Scandium isn't alloyed in the frame to stop abrasion, it's added to keep the original dimensions longer.
Here's a link to the patent held (at one time?) by S&W. US6711819B2 - Scandium containing aluminum alloy firearm
- Google Patents
I just looked at the picture in your original post. The 340 SC has a titanium cylinder. I'd bet the titanium cylinder is harder that that aluminum frame. If one is going to hit/rotate/rub on the other I'd put money on the harder titanium part winning the battle of abrasion over a softer aluminum part.
I also looked at my 442. (steel cylinder/aluminum alloy frame) I can see where the cylinder is taking the black coating off of the cylinder lug on the frame. Once again a harder material is going to win an abrasion war against a softer material.
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110 % agree
I am completely sympathetic and it total agreement with you waffles! Sad, but we have seen this day coming for a long time...
I am completely sympathetic and it total agreement with you waffles! Sad, but we have seen this day coming for a long time...
Fair enough, though I'd say for the purposes of discussing the revolvers it makes sense to differentiate between the frames sold as aluminum and those sold as scandium.
CA Escapee
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Your 340Sc and my 442 both have aluminum alloy frames. Yours has a bit of scandium in it and mine doesn't. If we both fired the same number and type of loads, mine would probably go out of timing/get sloppy, etc. quicker, whereas yours would stay "tighter" longer.
Smith & Wesson didn't put scandium in the alloy to keep the cylinder from wearing away the aluminum frame.
This whole issue is piss poor by S&W to say the lest. How lame. I would call every day and get to the bottom of it. Go up the ladder of management. You did nothing wrong as the user. The frame should be replaced. Its a $1000 pocket revolver!! I would find out who at S&W signed off on this nonsense and have his or her butt on a platter. Ridiculous.
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What is really sad is simply making the lug stick out say .01 it would probably never bee an issue.
My fix would be to machine and install an old style frame lug. I wouldn't even machine away what is the now. Just locate the spot, go in the depth of existing integral lug with an end mill the same OD as steel lug, the go to a bit the size of a lugs pin. then go inside the frame and give the hole a light chamber. Install the lug lug and then swell the pin into the chamber and stake the edge it could never turn. This would give the frame a steel ledge for the cylinder to ride against when open, just like the older steel guns.
My fix would be to machine and install an old style frame lug. I wouldn't even machine away what is the now. Just locate the spot, go in the depth of existing integral lug with an end mill the same OD as steel lug, the go to a bit the size of a lugs pin. then go inside the frame and give the hole a light chamber. Install the lug lug and then swell the pin into the chamber and stake the edge it could never turn. This would give the frame a steel ledge for the cylinder to ride against when open, just like the older steel guns.
WAFFLES Sorry for mis quote
I did not imply you acted like a gorilla. I said that I learned I shouldn't gorilla the cylinder.
I would never intentionally insult any gentleman or lady on this forum
WAFFLES.
I did not imply you acted like a gorilla. I said that I learned I shouldn't gorilla the cylinder.
I would never intentionally insult any gentleman or lady on this forum
Please forgive my ignorance but I'm still uncertain after reading this twice what the issue with the firearm is? Will the cylinder not close? Stay closed? I don't understand what's going on with the lug.
Thank you
Thank you
The issue is that wen you open the cylinder the cylinder can move backwards off the yoke tube. The lug at the rear bottom of the cylinder opening is supposed to prevent this but it is to low.
This is shocking that Smith and Wesson will not do the right thing that's a high dollar gun regardless of the dollar amount that's a defect. I remember some years ago I saw a video on a person that had a either 642 or a 637 that that happened with the cylinder past that cylinder stop and they replaced the frame giving them a new gun. I would try and call up Toni Mylie Don't know if that's the correct spelling of last name from the performance center he overseas a lot of things and possibly do something for you even if you have to pay a small amount to buy another model from Smith. That gun should be warranted for life it's not made in earlier years when they stopped or didn't have that policy. Good luck on this matter not right now it's a high dollar paperweight not fair at all.
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I wouldn't own one of those but, leaving that out, S&W usually will replace a gun at their cost, at the very least. Speak to customer service about that; that used to be the policy.
As steelslaver stated, when you swing out the cylinder & tip the nose of the revolver up, the cylinder will slide off the yoke without something to stop it.
That's what the frame lug does. It stops the cylinder when you tip it up to eject the fired cartridges (down &) out of the cylinder.
With minimal interference between the edge of the cylinder & the frame lug these seem to be susceptible to damage resulting in the cylinder no longer being stopped.
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-arrow points to damaged cylinder stop frame lug -
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Stratajema
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I'm at the age where money doesn't matter too much and I was seriously considering buying an M&P 340 with a scandy frame. So I am very disappointed to read about the trouble the OP had with both his similar revolver and with Smith and Wesson corporate.
I'll probably end up buying a Ruger LCR. I wish Kimber would make a light-weight "K5" revolver because I would buy it in an instant.
If you are ultimately stuck with keeping your defective S&W revolver, is it possible to use a quicksetting steel epoxy like JB Weld, applied in thin layers on the problem area? I think (not sure) that JB Weld now offers a paintable expoxy.
I'll probably end up buying a Ruger LCR. I wish Kimber would make a light-weight "K5" revolver because I would buy it in an instant.
If you are ultimately stuck with keeping your defective S&W revolver, is it possible to use a quicksetting steel epoxy like JB Weld, applied in thin layers on the problem area? I think (not sure) that JB Weld now offers a paintable expoxy.
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slabside2
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This is the reason some guys remove the cylinder when cleaning air weight guns. Back and forth with the bore brush each time the cylinder hits the stop again and again causing wear. Is stainless guns it not an issue steel against steel not a problem. Smith would have to make new dies with an increase for the cylinder stop guess it's not worth it to them. If you do a search there are many threads about this. When I clean my 442 I hold down on the cylinder so is doesn't move.
Probably just change the code in the CNC program so the tip of end mill stays a bit farther out. I don't think the aluminum or scandium frames are forged. Like I said before if the present lugs were just a bit thicker the cylinder would have more engagement when against it, therefore wearing less and the problem would not occur
But, the hammer and trigger studs as well as those for the rebound slide and cylinder stop are steel inserted into the frame. There is absolutely no reason the same method could not be used to install a old style steel frame lug.
But, the hammer and trigger studs as well as those for the rebound slide and cylinder stop are steel inserted into the frame. There is absolutely no reason the same method could not be used to install a old style steel frame lug.
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