Interesting read on missing military weapons.

[Retired LTC USAR]

Some states want to make it a crime to not securely store your weapon. Wonder what they would thing about this investigation.

US military guns keep vanishing, some used in street crimes

 

[Muss Muggins]

I'd like to know what the 7 "Other" weapons are . . .

 

[AJ]

Missing/Lost/Stolen

I figured that there were some missing, but not the quantities referred to in the article.

In my career in the Corps, I only knew of one weapon that came up missing.

US military guns keep vanishing, some used in street crimes

 

[ladder13]

Awww that’s nothing. How about the $300-400 BILLION, missing, stolen or unaccounted for Covid relief money?

 

[Tom S.]

Duplicate threads merged. Please look before posting!

 

[fordson]

Interesting story. New term I’ve not heard before: automatic assault weapon. Guess it’s a sub-category.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

Nothing new, and I notice the military's culture of "Lie and Deny" hasn't changed. In my year in Germany 1970-1971 the arms rooms keys were left with the CQ after duty hours, and he was unarmed. And a lot of armorers weren't the most conscientious. One veteran told me in his unit someone lifted a couple of M1911s, replaced them with those Made in Japan duplicates. Even put the original grips with the arms rack number on them. By the time someone noticed......

 

[NYlakesider]

You want to read about a interesting "missing gun" story?

Its in the book by Retired Colonel David Hackworth

About Face, the Odyssey of a American warrior.

 

[Greyman50]

Unbelievable incompetence . Guess times have changed 100% since I was in as Every “ weapon” regardless was Signed Out. Whoever signed was responsible, court marshal, period if “ lost”. Had a good friend that was armorer in 82nd Airborne Div. when at Ft. Bragg. He said no weapons were “lost” from his armory nor did he know of any in other units.
The “ things” my Grandson tells me would in todays service would curl your hair.

 

[Ole Joe Clark]

I once worked for a company that obtained a contract to modify containers for one of the popular chopper/aircraft missiles at the time. Came into work one morning and everybody was kinda jumpy and nervous. A couple of the supposedly empty containers that came in to be modified, still had the missile inside. A phone call was made and someone quickly showed up and carried them back where they came from.

Have a blessed day,

Leon

 

[old tanker]

Pet peeve and rant follows:

Basic trainees were used as interior guards on many posts. "Armed" with empty rifles on remote ranges they were targets. PVT Snuffy challenges some redneck at a back gate only to to get beat up, tied up and relieved of his M16. Only luck might be is the Commander of the Relief should be showing up with his replacement within two hours.

The stupid practice of sentries being required to carry empty weapons has gone on for decades. In the worst cases, during guard mount the soldier was inspected to make sure his ammo pouches were stuffed with newspaper so they looked full.

One post in Germany I remember they kept an ammo can chained and padlocked to the guard shack floor at the main gate. It contained two magazines of five rounds each, to be issued in the event of emergency. The key was kept with the Brigade Duty Officer, a mile and half away.

 

[bgrafsr]

When I was a Detective with the P.D., I had a former Veteran approach me in the parking lot and said he wanted to return an ammo can with ammo to me, as he had a guilty conscience.
He said he took the can of ammo, 500 rounds of 7.62 X 51, while on a range day in the Army and brought it home.
I didn't ask any questions and took the ammo. Called the local FBI Office, explained what I had, and the Agent asked if I had a .308. I told him yes, a copy of the M-14, and he said, "Bill, enjoy the hell out of shooting up all that ammo", the Army doesn't need it back.

 

[Greyman50]

Wow, maybe times have changed. Our AMTU had to account for every round we fired and the ammo cans had to be turned in too, this was 73-72. IIRC in basic we were watched very close when dealing with weapons and ammo would have to been a slight of hand artist to make off with anything.

 

[chief38]

The Military is going the way of the rest of the Country - UNFORTUNATELY due to the powers that be now. Don't quite know what is an "accident" or purposeful any longer. Not good times!

 

[Sistema1927]

When you look at the entire picture, the number of missing weapons is a very small percentage of the whole. (If I did my math right, for the Army it is less than .05%.)

Should there be greater accountability? Absolutely. Do these weapons pose an inordinate amount of risk to the public. Absolutely not. If the gang bangers in Albany didn't have that one M9, does anyone really believe that they wouldn't have acquired another weapon by other means?

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

Getting back at an obnoxious individual-an officer especially-by having him "sign" for a weapon has been a favorite trick of armorers for years. And troops find all sorts of ways to torment obnoxious superiors-or an armorer, many fellow veterans have told me the armorer in their unit was an object of contempt and derision for his arrogant hostile attitude. People living in family quarters or off-post housing would get off guard duty-and take their weapons home. "I signed for it."
A PD here in NJ found a number of weapons missing from their arms room. They were signed for by an officer who had retired some time ago-and died.

 

[Steve912]

You want to read about a interesting "missing gun" story?

Its in the book by Retired Colonel David Hackworth

About Face, the Odyssey of a American warrior.

I've learned and forgotten more than the average American
citizen, about Hackworth. He wasn't due any admiration.

Sounds like majority of Army losses described, happened either
at higher logistic levels (overseas or CONUS), or at Guard/
Reserve units. Most, probably, "inside jobs", by people
entrusted with transferring & accounting for weapons as part
of their duty position. Accountability at "end user" level is
typically pretty good.

Guard & Reserve units are much softer targets for forced entry,
compared to active Army units.

The AP claims they did their own investigation
but there's no explanation of how they came up with their
figures. Who knows.

 

[charlie sherrill]

As an investigator with the SO back around 04-05 I went to Camp Shelby,Ms. and took a report on ten stolen M9's. I found five of them in a pawn shop in another city and arrested the guy who hocked them. Another one was recovered from a convicted felon. As far as I know the other four were never recovered.

I suspect that stealing firearms from the military was even more common during times of war. I remember seeing 1911's, carbines, and other items in my younger days and often the guys who had them would say "I snuck it home in a dufflebag" or something similar. The surplus stores were full of these guns at cheap prices. The great majority of these guns were never reported stolen, or if they were, the reports are where you can't find them. The difference then and now is that most of the WWII stuff wasn't used in crimes.

 

[WR Moore]

I was working in a LGS about 1970 when a BATF agent stopped in. After browsing the store, he dropped a stack of paper over 1/2 inch think on my counter and asked if I'd seen any of them.

The stack was a single spaced, both sides of the paper list of all the firearms then known to be missing from government stocks. Being pre-computer, there was no sorting of type, make, model etc. Just a list, probably in the order they were reported missing. An interesting list, but useless for checking anything presented for sale.

Paging through it while bored, most seemed to be rifles & pistols. I do faintly recall a couple of BARs among the missing.

The article mentioned a theft discovered when empty pistol boxes were found on base. Rank stupidity. Leaving the boxes in the vault, maybe with a metal bar to approximate weight would have delayed discovery for quite awhile. Possibly decades. A thorough inventory of racked weapons where they can be individually verified should limit theft. Key word being thorough. Stuff that may be boxed might only be verified during an IG audit.

 

[AJ]

I was working in a LGS about 1970 when a BATF agent stopped in. After browsing the store, he dropped a stack of paper over 1/2 inch think on my counter and asked if I'd seen any of them.

The stack was a single spaced, both sides of the paper list of all the firearms then known to be missing from government stocks. Being pre-computer, there was no sorting of type, make, model etc. Just a list, probably in the order they were reported missing. An interesting list, but useless for checking anything presented for sale.

Paging through it while bored, most seemed to be rifles & pistols. I do faintly recall a couple of BARs among the missing.

The article mentioned a theft discovered when empty pistol boxes were found on base. Rank stupidity. Leaving the boxes in the vault, maybe with a metal bar to approximate weight would have delayed discovery for quite awhile. Possibly decades. A thorough inventory of racked weapons where they can be individually verified should limit theft. Key word being thorough. Stuff that may be boxed might only be verified during an IG audit.

Probably as many firearms missing from Federal, State and Local Law Enforcement over the years as military. Not uncommon to hear about someone in law enforcement leaving weapons in a vehicle and it getting broken into and the firearms are missing.