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There might be some merit to that idea, but who can read a CHL at 10 steps or more? At that distance, I can't tell the difference between a CHL and a Costco membership card.
Inserting yourself into a shooting can have deadly consequences . . .
- Thread starter Muss Muggins
- Start date
There might be some merit to that idea, but who can read a CHL at 10 steps or more? At that distance, I can't tell the difference between a CHL and a Costco membership card.
Yes, it is. Bottom line, when the "cavalry" arrives hands need to be empty. No amount of training or "restraint" is going to clarify "Shots fired!! Officer down!!" to arriving LE. Minds are racing, pulse quick, shallow rapid breathing and scene chaotic are all ingredients for disaster. Even if you have "righteously eliminated" a threat you don't want that appearance filtered through the aforementioned recipe. Joe
smithra_66
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Correct. Hands should be empty and up and your voice should be clearly communicating your identity and what happened, asking for instructions.
I don't need to go to a "training class" to know this.
2 pages of comment and nobody has mentioned something that I think is relevant, so allow me to suffer the same wrath others here face for stating their opinion: An AR was involved. Considering where this happened, the Denver area, the police likely have a heightened sense of concern at the very sight of someone standing in public with an AR, and rightfully so. All this incident proves is that Murphys Law rules. And CC badges has to be the most ridiculous thing I ever heard of...brings up visions of a real bad reality TV show, Dog the CCP Holder wandering the streets looking for a gun fight.
Neither CO, nor Denver, nor Arvada have a ban on ARs. Not sure why you think the location has anything to do with anything, I don't think you'd get calmer cops rolling up a guy holding an AR after an officer down call in any urban area.
retrieverhunter
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The same thing that would stop a bad guy from having a badge is the same thing that will stop a cop from shooting a good guy…ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
As I said, I read this idea in a book (non fiction), and as I also said previously, I subscribe to "not my monkey, not my circus" on situations involving law enforcement.
I'm out on this discussion.
It's interesting to me that virtually every CCW situation examined has so much discussion, controversy, and in-fighting among gun owners on this Forum. We all are allowed to have our own opinions. I guess that is what the 1st Amendment is all about. Probably someone needs to start a thread about .45acp vs. 9mm so we can engender another lively argument.
Mike_Fontenot
Member
Nothing. But I think their priorities are elsewhere.
Nothing in your hands, and hands up, IS the thing to do when circumstances warrant. But that applies when the threat from the shooter is over and the cops have arrived or probably will arrive shortly. If the bad guy is still shooting at you or at other innocent people, your priority needs to be stopping him, and/or getting cover. In times like the latter, I'd actually like to have a badge in front of my body AND behind my body (in case a cop arrives and is considering shooting me in the back). Unfortunately, I currently only have one badge.
Mike_Fontenot
Member
I wouldn't be impersonating a peace officer. My badge says "Concealed Weapons Permit", not "Police" on it. And I wouldn't announce myself as "Police" ... if I identified myself at all, I'd probably say "CWP".
Mike_Fontenot
Member
WOW. You must live in one of those sparsely populated rural counties in California where the sheriff will issue a CWP to people with clean records. It's my understanding that those people can carry anywhere in the state. So you can carry while visiting San Francisco or Berkeley, even though the residents of those cities can't!
Mike_Fontenot
Member
A CHL is a plastic wallet card. It has no value being worn around your neck, because it doesn't convey any message from a distance. I'm talking about a BADGE. That DOES convey a message from a distance. That message is "I'm not a bad guy".
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OP
You do gotta admit it'd be mighty boring here with a bunch of single post threads and nothing else but "likes . . . "
Grandma Muggins always said there's a lid for every pot . . .
Grandma Muggins always said there's a lid for every pot . . .
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Mike_Fontenot
Member
I disagree. I think a responding cop will think twice about shooting someone with a badge ... that's why an off-duty cop would likely display his badge in these circumstances.
The badges are garbage, better off waving a white hanky. While here I doubt one would net you charges but might get you laughed at. Doesn't say good guy to me, says kinda strange guy to me. Sorry, call em like I see em. You would be much better off getting in a safe place or holding your empty hands in the air (or a white cloth) than spending time fumbling around getting some fake badge out.
Good luck with that. Take care to ensure your badge is in either ointment or suppository form.
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sigp220.45
US Veteran
My NOPD son was the first car to a fatal shooting last week. One guy was on the ground doing his exit twitches, the other guy was standing at the back of his car, hands high. "He stuck a gun to my head and I shot him." Extra points for brevity and clarity.
Joe cuffed him and asked where the guns were. Both were in the good guy's car. He had been sitting behind the wheel waiting for someone when the other car (stolen) pulled up behind him and the driver got out, Glock 26 with an extended mag in hand. He stuck the gun to the driver's head and told him to get out. Good guy pushed the gun away and corked one off from his 9mm SDVE, hitting the bad guy in the face. Due to the upward angle the bullet exited high on the back of the head. Good thing - the gun stovepiped. The Glock dropped on the floorboard.
More cops came, the guy went to the Homicide office and gave a statement and was released without charges.
I doubt this guy had a plan beforehand, but its seems like he got it right. I'm not a threat, this is what happened, the guns are over there.
Joe cuffed him and asked where the guns were. Both were in the good guy's car. He had been sitting behind the wheel waiting for someone when the other car (stolen) pulled up behind him and the driver got out, Glock 26 with an extended mag in hand. He stuck the gun to the driver's head and told him to get out. Good guy pushed the gun away and corked one off from his 9mm SDVE, hitting the bad guy in the face. Due to the upward angle the bullet exited high on the back of the head. Good thing - the gun stovepiped. The Glock dropped on the floorboard.
More cops came, the guy went to the Homicide office and gave a statement and was released without charges.
I doubt this guy had a plan beforehand, but its seems like he got it right. I'm not a threat, this is what happened, the guns are over there.
smithra_66
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And this is exactly how MOST citizen involved shootings play out. Cops shooting an innocent civilian who just had a justified shooting is very rare, regardless of the conclusions that the OP was trying to draw from that particular incident.
He had a "plan." He had the 9mm SDVE ready when the creep approached him. 
OP
I drew no conclusions. Plenty of others here to do that for me. My position about why I carry is well known and oft-stated . . .
sigp220.45
US Veteran
My point was dealing with the cops afterwards. Muss's point in deciding when or if to intervene has a lot of merit.
