Inserting yourself into a shooting can have deadly consequences . . .
- Thread starter Muss Muggins
- Start date
sigp220.45
US Veteran
No charges against the officer who shot the guy who shot the killer.
Sad deal all around.
No charges against Arvada police officer who shot and killed 'Good Samaritan' during attack in Olde Town | Colorado Public Radio
Sad deal all around.
No charges against Arvada police officer who shot and killed 'Good Samaritan' during attack in Olde Town | Colorado Public Radio
Ranger514
Member
Having served in LE, I have a serious personal committment to aid any officers in need of assistance, as long as doing so will not place loved ones or other innocents in danger. I don't hold non-LE to that level of response, and I greive for the family of the good samaritan who died needlessly.
Totally dumb move holding a gun at a shooting scene when the cops arrive.......Has Happened before.
Mike_Fontenot
Member
No one knows why he picked up the rifle. Maybe he had a good reason, or maybe he didn't. Regardless, he could have lowered his chances of being mistaken for a bad guy if he'd hung a CWP badge around his neck.
I'm not sure what your intention was, but it could be interpreted in your initial post that you pretty squarely laid this on the bystander inserting himself on behalf of a police officer being murdered by a criminal.
That "don't think we know yer what did or do not occur…" stuff cuts both ways.
There is some irony there as well, given that the officer who shot the armed citizen who stopped a mass shooting was himself shot by an officer making assumptions that were ultimately not correct.
Intentional or not there is a double standard in play here and it's problematic.
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In light of what we know now it is both fair and accurate to say that if an armed citizen does elect to stop a mass shooter, once the suspect is down, they should not wander over and pick up the weapon. Most of us will agree that os pretty stupid.
I'll also argue that once they immediate threat is neutralized, they need to do what anyone else at a mass shooting scene should do when police arrive or do immediately if the police are already there.
• Put down any items in your hands, such as bags, jackets, or in this case his concealed carry handgun;
• Immediately raise hands and spread fingers;
• Remain calm, and follow officers' instructions;
• Keep hands visible at all times
• Avoid making quick movements, especially toward officers;
• Avoid pointing, screaming and/or yelling; and
• Do not resist and do whatever is required, including being cuffed and put in a patrol car, until the police can sort out who is and is not threat.
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It is however a complex problem as on one hand, police officers virtually never arrive in time to protect anyone from an assault, rape or murder. Consequently our own self defense, defense of our friends and family, and to some extent as a civilized society the defense of other innocents rests with us.
On the other hand, we've now trained a generation or two of police officers who are primed to shoot as soon as a minimum legal justification is met, often before an actually need to shoot due to the absence of any other deescalation or less lethal options.
Unfortunately many officers seem to have been indoctrinated to prioritize preserving their own life using lethal force in the presence of any *potential* threat, even at the risk to bystanders and innocents. The concept that certain risks come with the job seems to have been lost. One of those risks is increased risk while fully assessing what's going on before potentially shooting a bystander or innocent victim.
There's obviously a need for balance as the public has in many cases lost some degree of confidence in the ability of officers to responsibly assess a situation before jumping into control the scene and stop whatever is happening.
Incidents like this one ultimately don't help restore public trust, even of the officer's are legally justifiable.
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Personally, I agree with you to the extent that my priority is to get my family to a safe location.
But if that isn't on the table (I.e. I a, alone or have already accomplished that the police are not yet there or are showing no inclination to take any action pending back up, I'd have to morally and ethically weigh the risks of taking action, against the potential for more innocents to be killed if I do nothing. "just leave it to the police" is at best a cop out. No pun intended.
I don't want to bear the burden of wondering how many lives were lost because I elected to do nothing.
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Not if cops in that area don't wear badges around their necks.
Triathloncoach
Member
What a shame. He just survived a life or death shoot out. And didn't handle his shock well. What a brave selfless man. My sympathy also goes out to the officer. He saw his fellow officer dead on the ground and a man holding a rifle. What choice did he have.
Triathloncoach
Member
I feel for both cops.
Mike_Fontenot
Member
Either way, he would have been less likely to be shot by a responding cop, or by an off-duty cop, or by another armed CWP holder.
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Mike_Fontenot
Member
I agree with that. You've raised an important issue about this incident that hadn't been addressed, and it should be.
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Removed. Sorry.
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