357 Magnum in Snubs

pantannojack

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Just asking because it is too hot and smoky out to chrono for myself; and I do not shoot magnums in my K Frames.
How may the run of the mill 357 Magnum, 38 +P, and 38 Special loads compare velocity wise in 2 1/2 bbls such as the M19 and 3" M65? I might think the night blinding flash and ear splitting report to be a detractant for any other than last ditch social use.
 
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Just asking because it is too hot and smoky out to chrono for myself; and I do not shoot magnums in my K Frames.
How may the run of the mill 357 Magnum, 38 +P, and 38 Special loads compare velocity wise in 2 1/2 bbls such as the M19 and 3" M65? I might think the night blinding flash and ear splitting report to be a detractant for any other than last ditch social use.

I've never chronographed loads in my M66-1, but I have shot some full 158 grain magnum loads from it. Only in the daytime, but still a significant flash and plenty loud, much more so than my 4" M19-3 with the same load. However, out to 15 yards, my groups with the shortie are only slightly larger than with the 4", still in body mass.

It would depend a little on what powder you're using, but a fast powder should only have a 50-75 fps drop over a 4", I would guess. A slower powder might have a bit more, with some unburned/still burning powder in the fireball.
 
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1 7/8" M340/360 and 2.75" M66-8

I think this is the type of info OP is looking for. FOR INFO ONLY - THE 200Gr LOADS ARE NOT IN ANY PUBLISHED DATA - FOR INFO ONLY


S&W M360 Ti 1.9" 185 LFNGC 14.70 Lil'Gun 1,023 fps
S&W M340 Ti 1.9" 158 CSWC 13.50 H-2400 1,075 fps
S&W M340 Ti 1.9" 158 JHP - XTP 13.50 H-2400 1,009 fps
S&W M360 Ti 1.9" 158 LRNFP 9.60 Blue Dot 1,020 fps
S&W M360 Ti 1.9" 158 JHP 9.60 Blue Dot 946 fps
S&W M340 Ti 1.9" 158 LSWHP .38 Rem Fact 753 fps
S&W M340 Ti 1.9" 130 FMJRN .38 Am Eagle 680 fps
S&W M340 Ti 1.9" 130 Hydra-Shok .357 Fed Fact 1,159 fps
S&W M340 Ti 1.9" 180 LWFN .357 Fed Fact 905 fps




Labradar Muzzle Velocity (familiarization run)
60 Deg F
S&W M66-8 2.75" .357 Mag

130gr Fed Hydra-Shok JHP "Personal Defense" PD357HS2 H …….. 1,416 fps avg (84 fps ES) -- two rounds
140gr Underwood Xtreme Penetrator (Philips head mono metal).. 1,422 fps avg ( 5 fps ES) -- two rounds
158gr Horn Xtp - 15.0gr A2400 Std small pistol, new Starline...… 1,316 fps avg (49 fps ES) -- six rounds
165gr CSWCGC (358156) - 13.0gr A2400 New Starline         ...… 1,070 fps avg (49 fps ES) -- six rounds
180gr Buff Bore …………………………………………………………………………….. 1,312 fps avg ( 6 fps ES) -- two rounds
185gr LFNGC (Beartooth), 15.0gr Lil'Gun, CCI 400 New Starline.. 1,228 fps avg (14 fps ES) – two rounds
200gr WLNGC (leadheads), 13.4gr H110, Fed 205, New Starline.. 1,102 fps avg ( 4 fps ES) – two rounds
200gr WLNGC (leadheads), 14.4gr H110, Fed 205, New Starline.. 1,155 fps avg ( 2 fps ES) – two rounds
(purported to be the “Doubletap” load info)
200gr WLNGC (leadheads) handload with Lil Gun ………………………. 1,266 fps avg ( 2 fps ES) -- two rounds
Load data not given -- maybe too much of a good thing. Spent cases fell from chambers, and no obvious signs of over pressure. Recoil was heavy. Don't even know if this stabilizes.

It appears that my 2 3/4" M66-8 is a "fast" gun.
 
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I've had a 3" Model 60 and a 2 1/2" Model 19. .357 magnum loads in snubnosed guns are for expert shooters. Some lesser shooters claim to like the hefty recoil and the horrendous muzzle blast and flash, but they fail to mention slow recovery from recoil. To these folks, the guns and loads are more of a novelty than something of practical value.
 
I've had a 3" Model 60 and a 2 1/2" Model 19. .357 magnum loads in snubnosed guns are for expert shooters. Some lesser shooters claim to like the hefty recoil and the horrendous muzzle blast and flash, but they fail to mention slow recovery from recoil. To these folks, the guns and loads are more of a novelty than something of practical value.




I completely disagree with your statements.



- YouTube
 
I can't find much data for 125 gr but I have shot Golden Saber, Sig V-Crown, Gold Dot and Hornady American Gunner 125 xtp out of my 360 AirWeight and the Golden Saber and Sig is published around 1150-1250 fps out of 4" barrel (I think) and I know I lose at least 100-150 fps from the 1⅞" barrel but recoil is not punishing and I can put 5 rounds in a 6" pie plate at 7 yards rather quickly. On the other side of the spectrum are the Gold Dot and hornady loads, the are 1450 & 1500 fps out if a 4" barrel. They are not brutal or painful but I cannot keep them on that 6" pie plate after the 2nd shot. I shoot those hotter rounds in my SP101 or Dan Wesson 15-2 because of the added weight.

I'm not sure why the need is there for a heavier round (158 & 200 gr) for SD out of a snubby or whatever reason, I've taken whitetail (man size game) with 125 XTP for many years without loosing one with several dropping where they were shot.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 
I can't find much data for 125 gr but I have shot Golden Saber, Sig V-Crown, Gold Dot and Hornady American Gunner 125 xtp out of my 360 AirWeight and the Golden Saber and Sig is published around 1150-1250 fps out of 4" barrel (I think) and I know I lose at least 100-150 fps from the 1⅞" barrel but recoil is not punishing and I can put 5 rounds in a 6" pie plate at 7 yards rather quickly. On the other side of the spectrum are the Gold Dot and hornady loads, the are 1450 & 1500 fps out if a 4" barrel. They are not brutal or painful but I cannot keep them on that 6" pie plate after the 2nd shot. I shoot those hotter rounds in my SP101 or Dan Wesson 15-2 because of the added weight.

I'm not sure why the need is there for a heavier round (158 & 200 gr) for SD out of a snubby or whatever reason, I've taken whitetail (man size game) with 125 XTP for many years without loosing one with several dropping where they were shot.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

From above:
S&W M340 Ti 1.9" 130 Hydra-Shok .357 Fed Fact 1,159 fps (5 long paces from the muzzle)

As far as the heavier bullets: I live in western Montana. I'm out with the dog every day. In inclement weather, I drop the 360 in the pocket of my rain jacket for easy access.

FWIW,

Paul
 
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The K frame can shoot 357 magnum loads but.........

it will last a lot longer with 38 +P ammo as a SD loading as an option.

Just depends on how long you want it to last.
 
I have a 19-5 , 2.5" barrel . It has devoured many thousands of 357 rounds and hardly any 38 specials . My most common load is a 158 gr bullet on top of 9.3 grs of HS6 fired with a magnum primer . It say , " 357 " on the side of the barrel and that's what I load it with . It's as tight as the day I bought it . The K-frame Smith's are not " weak sisters " . They were built for 158 gr bullets , not those hot 125 gr magnum loads .
My post is NOT based on what someone told me or something that someone read somewhere but can't remember where ? This is my own personal experience after years and years of loading and shooting K-frame 357 magnum Smiths . If it ever loosens up , I will let all know . Till then , I will continue to load it with 357 magnum loads and not worry about it . Regards Paul
 
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Over the decades I have run 10s of thousands of rounds of FULL Magnum 357 ammunition through my firearms.

The bulk of those rounds were the Remington 125 grain SJHP and the Remington 158 JSP

There were also many hand loads, mostly with the Winchester 125 JHP projectile or the Remington 180 SJHP

In terms of real world velocities I have chronographed lots of 125 grain combinations. All results are the average of at least 2 strings of 5 rounds. Often, there were multiple examples of the same firearm

The first column is my 125 Winchester JHP hand loads, using 21.7 grains of H110, the second column is the Remington 125 SJHP factory load :
1234 FPS | 1211 FPS from a Model 640 J-frame
1242 FPS | 1242 FPS from a 2 1/2" Mag-Na-Ported Model 66
N/T.........| 1264 FPS from a 2 1/2" Model 19
N/T.........| 1283 FPS from a 3" F-Comp
1287 FPS | 1285 FPS from a 2 1/2" Model 66
N/T.........| 1322 FPS from a 3" Model 60 Small Hunter
N/T.........| 1370 FPS from a 3 1/2" Model 27
N/T.........| 1391 FPS from a 4" Model 27
1496 FPS | 1477 FPS from a 5" Model 627
N/T.........| 1530 FPS from a 6" Model 27
1599 FPS | N/T from a 8" Python
1780 FPS | 1776 FPS from a 10" T/C Contender
2106 FPS | 2049 FPS from a 18" 1892 Lever gun

With many, many thousands of Magnum loads fired over 4 decades, I have not yet worn out a K-frame. Perhaps my K-frame Magnums will last longer if I only shoot 38 Special through them, but why should I care. If all I wanted to shoot was 38s, I would have bought a 38

If a part ever wears out I will replace it, no big deal
 
.357 magnum loads in snubnosed guns are for expert shooters. Some lesser shooters claim to like the hefty recoil and the horrendous muzzle blast and flash, but they fail to mention slow recovery from recoil. To these folks, the guns and loads are more of a novelty than something of practical value.

I beg to differ. I am far from being expert, but I can get 6 full magnum shots into body mass at 15 yards with my 2-1/2" RB M66-1 double action in 6 seconds. I carry the gun as a CC, and it's loaded with 158 grain JHP's that are full loads. I figure if I'm gonna carry it like that, I need to be able to put them all where they'll do the most damage. Plinking with lower-powered stuff is for fun, but train with what you carry.
 
Buffalo Bore makes a short-barrel .357 load. It's a little less than full house .357 magnum, but much more stout than .38 Special +P.

Tactical Short Barrel Lower Recoil Low Flash 357 Mag Pistol & Handgun Ammunition

Click on either the 125gr or the 158gr and read what they say about flash, recoil, and noise. The bonus is they're actually in stock so you can try them.

Those are my daily carry in my K6S for now.
 
Over the decades I have run 10s of thousands of rounds of FULL Magnum 357 ammunition through my firearms.

The bulk of those rounds were the Remington 125 grain SJHP and the Remington 158 JSP

There were also many hand loads, mostly with the Winchester 125 JHP projectile or the Remington 180 SJHP

In terms of real world velocities I have chronographed lots of 125 grain combinations. All results are the average of at least 2 strings of 5 rounds. Often, there were multiple examples of the same firearm

The first column is my 125 Winchester JHP hand loads, using 21.7 grains of H110, the second column is the Remington 125 SJHP factory load :
1234 FPS | 1211 FPS from a Model 640 J-frame
1242 FPS | 1242 FPS from a 2 1/2" Mag-Na-Ported Model 66
N/T.........| 1264 FPS from a 2 1/2" Model 19
N/T.........| 1283 FPS from a 3" F-Comp
1287 FPS | 1285 FPS from a 2 1/2" Model 66
N/T.........| 1322 FPS from a 3" Model 60 Small Hunter
N/T.........| 1370 FPS from a 3 1/2" Model 27
N/T.........| 1391 FPS from a 4" Model 27
1496 FPS | 1477 FPS from a 5" Model 627
N/T.........| 1530 FPS from a 6" Model 27
1599 FPS | N/T from a 8" Python
1780 FPS | 1776 FPS from a 10" T/C Contender
2106 FPS | 2049 FPS from a 18" 1892 Lever gun

With many, many thousands of Magnum loads fired over 4 decades, I have not yet worn out a K-frame. Perhaps my K-frame Magnums will last longer if I only shoot 38 Special through them, but why should I care. If all I wanted to shoot was 38s, I would have bought a 38

If a part ever wears out I will replace it, no big deal


Just dpends on the weapon and loads, I guess.

I killed my K 19-5 with maximum loads of 110 & 125 JHP loads
that cracked the forcing cone at the bottom.
 
Here is some of my data on my choice of carry loads


Handloads:



135gr Speer GDHP Short Barrel 9.6 gr Power Pistol 357

Speer's Advertised factory velocities are 990 fps

The book has this load at 1137 fps out of a 2.5"

95 degrees

LCR with 1.875" barrel

High - 1395
eek.gif

Low - 1318
eek.gif

Extreme Spread: 76.73
Standard Deviation: 33.22

Avg - 1348 FPS - 545 ft lbs energy



135gr Speer GDHP Short Barrel 6.0 gr Power Pistol 38 +P

Speer's Advertised factory velocities are 860 fps

The book has this load at 983 fps out of a 2.5"

105 degrees

High - 908.7
Low - 830

Avg - 875 FPS - 230 ft lbs energy



Same load out of a 2" Colt Cobra barrel


105 degrees

High - 931.2
Low - 876.2

Avg - 897 FPS - 241 ft lbs energy




135gr Speer GDHP Short Barrel 6.4 gr Power Pistol 38 +P

Speer's Advertised factory velocities are 860 fps

The book has this load at 1065 fps out of a 2.5"

95 degrees

LCR with 1.875" barrel

High - 1108
Low - 1031
Extreme Spread - 77.66
Standard Deviation - 38.88

Avg - 1066 FPS - 341 ft lbs energy




I just picked up a 2.5" K frame, haven't had time to chrony these loads yet.
 
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Here is some of my data on my choice of carry loads

Handloads:

135gr Speer GDHP Short Barrel 9.6 gr Power Pistol 357

Speer's Advertised factory velocities are 990 fps

The book has this load at 1137 fps out of a 2.5"

95 degrees

LCR with 1.875" barrel

High - 1395 :eek:
Low - 1318 :eek:
Extreme Spread: 76.73
Standard Deviation: 33.22

Avg - 1348 FPS - 545 ft lbs energy
That is an impressive load

I have never used Power Pistol for revolvers, just for my autos.

I need to look into this
 
I had a S&W model 60 and a Ruger SP101, both short barrels in .357
magnum. I decided they were totally unnecessary. Now I carry Buffalo
Bore FBI load .38 Sp. +P in my 642-1.
 

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