J Frame two inch revolvers +P rated.
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The 640 I am looking at is ALL STEEL , but marked .38 special. and there is no +P on the barrel.
Okay, if there is no +P on the barrel then I would say it is not rated for it. I have the 640-1 all steel and it has the 357 magnum marked on it.
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Cal44
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The 640 no dash 38 specials are OK with 38+P from what I've read here and elsewhere many times.
The usual caution is to do the bulk of your practice with standard pressure 38 special and then carry it with 38+p.
I have a 649 no dash and the same thing goes for it.
The usual caution is to do the bulk of your practice with standard pressure 38 special and then carry it with 38+p.
I have a 649 no dash and the same thing goes for it.
+P is fine
The 640 comes in 38 Spl & .357 magnum.
It was introduced in the 1990's as a all steel 38 special.........
but it will hold up to light use of +P ammo and you can see a vidio on youtube
with "Hichcock" shooting the loaded, 23 oz. weapon at targets.
However he did state that a competitor "Pistol" with the same weight has 8 rounds.
I have a M49 snub nose all steel and it is rated for +P ammo..........
and it was made before your revolver.
It was introduced in the 1990's as a all steel 38 special.........
but it will hold up to light use of +P ammo and you can see a vidio on youtube
with "Hichcock" shooting the loaded, 23 oz. weapon at targets.
However he did state that a competitor "Pistol" with the same weight has 8 rounds.
I have a M49 snub nose all steel and it is rated for +P ammo..........
and it was made before your revolver.
Read a archived S&W thread early M640's were .38 spl. Starting with -1 the frame and cylinder was extended to handle .357 magnum.
Yes the .38spl 640 is fine with +P. At one point theyhad a marking on the frame in the cylinder window stating it was ok. I have an early 640 that has held up just fine over the past 30+ years. I bought it preowned-timing/lockup are like the day it left the factory.
I don't think I could shoot it enough to cause an issue.
I don't think I could shoot it enough to cause an issue.
The 649 was not rated for +P until the dash two. That model received a heat treat process. In the brochure that came with my dash two (1993), it was the only "J" frame rated as such. The others were not. That being said, almost all steel "J" frames can handle limited use of +P ammunition as others have pointed out.
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transit
Member
At one point, they had the 640 no-dash marked "Tested for +P+"
You're fine shooting +P through a M640.
If I may------------------
Let me suggest that the only thing appreciably higher, among pressure, muzzle velocity, and cost between regular everyday .38 Special ammo and +P is the cost-----and it came to be as a result of several long meetings to discuss the alternatives available to increase profit margins. One enterprising young man finally brought these meetings to a halt by suggesting a change to the name, a change to the several loads (so as to make meaningful comparisons difficult) and an increase in price for these new and improved, and really hot loads---and of course a small expenditure to disseminate some hype on these new and improved, and really hot loads.
Well, it took me a little while, but I was able to come up with ballistic information---APPLES TO APPLES ballistic information on regular, everyday.38 Special ammo from 1925, and today; and .38 Special +P today. I say ballistic information, it's muzzle velocity (which I submit has a direct relationship to pressure---that being what can and will destroy your gun, generally ruin your whole day, and send you running for your lawyer).
Okay?
Okay!! Here we go-------------------------------
1925 .38 Special 158 grain bullet muzzle velocity 858 fps.
Today .38 Special 158 grain bullet muzzle velocity 755 fps.
Today .38 Special +P 158 grain bullet muzzle velocity 890 fps.
Now----are there +P loads with higher muzzle velocities? Yes----absolutely. Are they with 158 grain bullets? Oh no, they're with lighter weight bullets. Now, speaking of lighter weight bullets, I found data on regular, everyday .38 Specials with 110 grain bullets----and the SUPER-DUPER +P with 110 grain bullets. HOLD ON TO YOUR HATS, BOYS and GIRLS--regular, everyday .38 Special 945 fps compared to a whopping 995 fps for the high priced spread.
Now, can I shoot + P ammo in pretty much any .38 Special ever made without jeopardizing life or limb------and if not, why not?!!
As an aside, if you'd like to do a little market research, go to the mall and ask 100 people why fishing tackle is made. I submit the overwhelming majority will tell you it's made to catch fish. A few---cheaters who've given the matter some thought, will tell you it's made to sell to fishermen----and fisherwomen, of course.
As another aside, this is not the opening gambit in a debate. Pretty much everybody in this hive is all grown up, and completely free to think, do, and believe as they please within the confines of lawful behavior------even ask if they can shoot +P ammo in their grandpappy's .38----or something similar.
Ralph Tremaine
Let me suggest that the only thing appreciably higher, among pressure, muzzle velocity, and cost between regular everyday .38 Special ammo and +P is the cost-----and it came to be as a result of several long meetings to discuss the alternatives available to increase profit margins. One enterprising young man finally brought these meetings to a halt by suggesting a change to the name, a change to the several loads (so as to make meaningful comparisons difficult) and an increase in price for these new and improved, and really hot loads---and of course a small expenditure to disseminate some hype on these new and improved, and really hot loads.
Well, it took me a little while, but I was able to come up with ballistic information---APPLES TO APPLES ballistic information on regular, everyday.38 Special ammo from 1925, and today; and .38 Special +P today. I say ballistic information, it's muzzle velocity (which I submit has a direct relationship to pressure---that being what can and will destroy your gun, generally ruin your whole day, and send you running for your lawyer).
Okay?
Okay!! Here we go-------------------------------
1925 .38 Special 158 grain bullet muzzle velocity 858 fps.
Today .38 Special 158 grain bullet muzzle velocity 755 fps.
Today .38 Special +P 158 grain bullet muzzle velocity 890 fps.
Now----are there +P loads with higher muzzle velocities? Yes----absolutely. Are they with 158 grain bullets? Oh no, they're with lighter weight bullets. Now, speaking of lighter weight bullets, I found data on regular, everyday .38 Specials with 110 grain bullets----and the SUPER-DUPER +P with 110 grain bullets. HOLD ON TO YOUR HATS, BOYS and GIRLS--regular, everyday .38 Special 945 fps compared to a whopping 995 fps for the high priced spread.
Now, can I shoot + P ammo in pretty much any .38 Special ever made without jeopardizing life or limb------and if not, why not?!!
As an aside, if you'd like to do a little market research, go to the mall and ask 100 people why fishing tackle is made. I submit the overwhelming majority will tell you it's made to catch fish. A few---cheaters who've given the matter some thought, will tell you it's made to sell to fishermen----and fisherwomen, of course.
As another aside, this is not the opening gambit in a debate. Pretty much everybody in this hive is all grown up, and completely free to think, do, and believe as they please within the confines of lawful behavior------even ask if they can shoot +P ammo in their grandpappy's .38----or something similar.
Ralph Tremaine
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My vote goes to the M60-7. Everything you would want - nothing you don't! I prefer a hammer and the single action option. After carrying one for 40+ years that would be mu J-Frame choice. (yes, it is +P rated).
Note: I switched to a Sig P365 3 years ago, now my M60-7 serves as a backup in the house.
Note: I switched to a Sig P365 3 years ago, now my M60-7 serves as a backup in the house.
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Thank you for that.
Seems like "Can I use +P in my Model (xyz)?" runs neck and neck with, "When was my Model (xyz) made?"
+P has some sort of mystery attached to it. Or maybe it's voodoo. No matter, the fear of blowing up a modern firearm on the first round of a +P Wonder Bullet is "blown" way out of proportion.
I have an M49 from 1983 that I carried as an off-duty backup for 20 years, qualifying with carry ammo (+P 158 grain LHP) 4x annually. It's as tight and accurate today as it was in 1983.
Thank you for that.
Seems like "Can I use +P in my Model (xyz)?" runs neck and neck with, "When was my Model (xyz) made?"
+P has some sort of mystery attached to it. Or maybe it's voodoo. No matter, the fear of blowing up a modern firearm on the first round of a +P Wonder Bullet is "blown" way out of proportion.
The mystery, voodoo, lies, and damn lies may be attributed to the very effective hype laid down by the ammunition folks. And needless to say, the gun folks were quick to react with "+P rated" stuff for you to buy. While I've never bothered to research the matter to the degree necessary, I suspect one would find a STRONG correlation to the timing of the downloading of what I've referred to as "regular, everyday" ammunition and the introduction of the solution to that problem: BEHOLD +P---the answer to your prayers---now you can shoot bad guys and inflict even more damage than you could in the good old days----not very much more damage I grant you, but a little more-----and some's good, more's better, and too much is just right!!!
Ralph Tremaine
This is an interesting discussion. I was led to believe that any J-frame of steel can handle +P; and in Keith's book "Sixguns by Keith" he goes on to say that these small guns can also handle the old High Speed ammo due to the placement of the notch on the cylinder and the length of the cylinder in the frame. However, from my limited real life experience I have found that a well placed shot of regular ammo or even wadcutters from your J- frame will definitely get the job done.
Plus P in a J frame five shot 2" revolver--Why ??
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The "old High Speed ammo" (38/44 S&W Special) did 1226 fps (from an 8 3/4" 357 Magnum barrel, per S&W). I suspect not too many folks would be wanting to be holding on to a J frame with those loads---never mind if it was still in one piece or not--------and I agree it'd very likely still be in one piece.
Ralph Tremaine
Ralph Tremaine
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