76Y40
Member
My 1978 S&W Model 49 is not stamped "+P" but I bought it with the understanding that it would withstand "+P" loads.
J Frame two inch revolvers +P rated.
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Rock185
US Veteran
I have no concern about using +P ammunition in my earlier, non-Magnum frame, 640. Some may remember that early 640s were marked, "Tested for +P+". I bought my 640 no-dash new back around '93-'94. There is no mention of "+P" on my 640. I was issued +P ammunition, and most all I've ever shot in it has been +P. Other than the action getting smoother with use over the years, I cannot detect any change in the function and fit of the gun. This putting "+P" on the barrel is a relatively new thing to me. I've just had no trouble with with using .38+P in any of my J-Frame guns.
FWIW, I also have a S&W 940 of approximately the same vintage. It's standard pressure 9mm ammunition operates at a considerably higher pressure than .38+P, in a revolver of the same size....
FWIW, I also have a S&W 940 of approximately the same vintage. It's standard pressure 9mm ammunition operates at a considerably higher pressure than .38+P, in a revolver of the same size....
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You will run out of money or years of life before you can wear out a modern steel J frame of any type with plus p.
Honest reality- shoot 5-10 plus p to confirm function and point of impact.
Carry with that ammo.
Even shooting a typical defensive box of 20 rounds once a month, start worrying in 25 years.
Or just buy 2 of the same revolver and rotate them.
Honest reality- shoot 5-10 plus p to confirm function and point of impact.
Carry with that ammo.
Even shooting a typical defensive box of 20 rounds once a month, start worrying in 25 years.
Or just buy 2 of the same revolver and rotate them.
"Today .38 Special +P 158 grain bullet muzzle velocity 890 fps".
That's interesting, though I don't know what barrel length.
278 ft pounds.
J-frame 9mm conversion 1-7/8" barrel standard pressure
147gr at 952 fps
296 ft pounds
Not a lot of difference there.
That's interesting, though I don't know what barrel length.
278 ft pounds.
J-frame 9mm conversion 1-7/8" barrel standard pressure
147gr at 952 fps
296 ft pounds
Not a lot of difference there.
While all these posts are correct, I believe the real issue on the difference between .38 Spl and .38 Spl +P (or +P+) is defined by the firing pressure of the cartridges as defined by SAAMI (Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturing Institute). These folks are the US loading mothership, and a voyage to that planet (SAAMI.org) provides interesting reading. Velocity is not really the yardstick.
Most manufacturers of ammunition and guns follow the SAAMI specs for dimensions and pressures. While the planet address is overburdened with technical methods, drawings and tables, attached is a simple screen shot of the pressures relating to this post.
.38 Spl pressure = 17,000 psi, which is a relatively low pressure round.
.38 Spl +P pressure = 18,500 psi, an 11% increase, but still in the low pressure range.
There is no SAAMI spec for +P+ as it is not a recognized loading. However, it arose from the marketing desire to somewhat close the "performance" gap with .357 magnum, a high pressure (and longer) cartridge @ 35,000 psi (same as 9mm and .40 S&W). .45 ACP is 21,000; 454 Casull is 65,000. Most +P+ loadings in any cartridge add up to another 5% pressure increase, but some loaders (Buffalo Bore comes to mind) may push that even further.
Thus, shooting .38 Spl +P is not harmful. It is well within the overpressure safety tolerances built into modern steel revolvers.
Max Chamber Pressure - SAAMI Specs
Most manufacturers of ammunition and guns follow the SAAMI specs for dimensions and pressures. While the planet address is overburdened with technical methods, drawings and tables, attached is a simple screen shot of the pressures relating to this post.
.38 Spl pressure = 17,000 psi, which is a relatively low pressure round.
.38 Spl +P pressure = 18,500 psi, an 11% increase, but still in the low pressure range.
There is no SAAMI spec for +P+ as it is not a recognized loading. However, it arose from the marketing desire to somewhat close the "performance" gap with .357 magnum, a high pressure (and longer) cartridge @ 35,000 psi (same as 9mm and .40 S&W). .45 ACP is 21,000; 454 Casull is 65,000. Most +P+ loadings in any cartridge add up to another 5% pressure increase, but some loaders (Buffalo Bore comes to mind) may push that even further.
Thus, shooting .38 Spl +P is not harmful. It is well within the overpressure safety tolerances built into modern steel revolvers.
Max Chamber Pressure - SAAMI Specs
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An increase from saami standards (look here https://saami.org/wp-content/upload...FP-and-R-Approved-2015-12-14-Posting-Copy.pdf) an increase from 18,300cup to 21,500cup would be 17.5%.
I suggest that if your gun only has a 18% safety margin it isn't acceptable in the first place. SAAMI proof loads are 25% over standard and designed for the weakest guns made in those groups so a proof load of 25% over standard should not blow up a 1949 J frame 38 special nor a 1926 K38.
But then I am not a huge +P fan for most guns. I think that for most people and guns, especially smaller, lighter, concealed carry guns the increase in velocity doesn't pay off in the cost of recoil recovery and accuracy. I also have my doubts about the wisdom of practice with standard ammo and then carry +P ammo. When the chips are all on the table, I want everything to be close to what I worked with. Don't need no more factors along with the stress.
I suggest that if your gun only has a 18% safety margin it isn't acceptable in the first place. SAAMI proof loads are 25% over standard and designed for the weakest guns made in those groups so a proof load of 25% over standard should not blow up a 1949 J frame 38 special nor a 1926 K38.
But then I am not a huge +P fan for most guns. I think that for most people and guns, especially smaller, lighter, concealed carry guns the increase in velocity doesn't pay off in the cost of recoil recovery and accuracy. I also have my doubts about the wisdom of practice with standard ammo and then carry +P ammo. When the chips are all on the table, I want everything to be close to what I worked with. Don't need no more factors along with the stress.
@ page 20 the SAAMI table lists .38 Spl +P average pressure as 20,000 psi as of 2015, not the 18,500 I referenced. That is about an 18% increase over 17,000. It is still relatively low pressure, and still within the safety overpressure standards.
I agree with Steelslaver's other observations about drawbacks to using +P in a snub nose.
Jerry in SC
Member
My favorite of all Model 60's. Built on the non magnum frame. Mine has a flash chromed hammer and trigger and wood service stocks. One 60-7 I owned had Uncle Mike's Boot grips and case hardened hammer and trigger.
"----------though I don't know what barrel length."
A reasonable observation------I don't either. What I do know is the test barrel for all of the loads except those from 1925 "--------was vented to produce ballistics similar to a revolver with a normal barrel to cylinder gap." In other words, nobody was trying to snooker you or anybody else. All of the data for everything (except S&W's 1925 data) was taken from a single published ballistics chart------------pretty much what I was talking about when I said "APPLES TO APPLES ballistic information".
I don't have a horse in this race---I don't even know anybody with a horse in this race. On the other hand, I am truly appalled at the very apparent wide spread willingness to accept the hype put out by the ammunition and firearms manufacturers as gospel. Let's take the phrase "+ P Rated" or some such stamped on the barrel of a gun, for instance. Why is it there---perhaps so all of us who own guns not so stamped will run out and buy one that is? You think? Pretty sad, isn't it?
It should be very apparent to anyone who's ever heard and understands the terms "Lawyer", or "Attorney At Law" and "Risk Management" that no ammunition company in their right mind is going to produce a product that is even remotely dangerous to use in any firearm ever made. I suspect all those who don't understand the implication here willingly shoot handloads they got from a friend----or a friend of a friend----or someone who knows a friend of a friend----without hesitation.
Rest In Peace (.)
Ralph Tremaine
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