Slug Gun for Deer Question: Does barrel need to be rifled???

[Redcoat3340]

My son wants to take his son deer hunting. But it's shotguns only.

He's thinking of 20 gauge with slugs. But the only "youth" models are non rifled.

So my question is: must the barrel be rifled to shoot slugs accurately out of a shotgun?

And I guess: how much difference is there in recoil is there between 12 and 20 gauge (for slugs) Maybe buying a 12, cutting down the stock and then adding a honking big recoil pad (suggestions please) to lessen the recoil, and then restocking as he grows out of the cutdown?

Suggestions for modestly priced guns gratefully accepted.

 

[armorer951]

The smooth bore does not need to be rifled, as the slugs have angled ridges/groves on them to impart spin to the slug itself. This helps it stabilize, and be more accurate.

Quite a bit of difference in recoil energy. Perhaps you can find a manufacturer that offers a 12 gauge with a youth sized stock. I believe Mossberg still makes a "youth" sized 12 and 20 gauge shotgun called the Bantam.

Mossberg Youth Shotguns | O.F. Mossberg & Sons, Inc.

 

[shocker]

No rifling needed. I've shot slugs out to 100 yds with iron sights and the groups are ~ 4". There's super slow motion videos of Foster slugs in flight and they spin even from a smoothbore. Very slow spin but given the short length with the mass distributed at the nose and rim it's enough.
Power wise, a 20 gauge slug approximates a 454 Casull IIRC.

 

[Muss Muggins]

A rifled barrel does not a shotgun make. That’s a rifle . . .

 

[max]

A 20 gauge should work just fine.

 

[Alpo]

Rifled shotgun barrels are made for sabot slugs. Shooting a foster slug IN a rifled barrel will screw up your accuracy, and shooting a sabot slug in a smooth bore is a waste of money. Foster slugs, even in this day of "way too much cost for ammunition" can be found for $2 or less. SABOT slugs are five to eight.


Edit: fixed otto korrek's changes to my original post. Maybe it will make more sense now.

 

[scooter123]

Recoil differences between a 12 and 20 gauge are smaller than most expect. Because the typical 20 gauge is typically around 1 lbs lighter than a 12 gauge. So, a 7/8 ounce charge out of a 20 gauge will feel near identical to the recoil of a 1 ounce load out of a 12 gauge.

Fact is the most significant factor effecting the recoil is the Ammunition. Shoot a 1 3/4 ounce 3 1/2 load from a 12 gauge and you'll start thinking about if you really want to fire another. Fortunately your really don't need a lot of mass or power with a shotgun slug to take a deer, heck people are taking deer with a "puny" little 357 Magnum in a 6 inch revolver. So don't go out looking for the heaviest or fastest load, if the shot is well placed a 3/4 to 1 ounce Foster Slug will drop a deer quickly.

 

[Eric300]

Rifled shotgun barrels are made for sabot slugs. Shooting a foster slug and a rifled barrel will screw up your accuracy, and shooting a sabot slug in a smooth bore is a waste of money. Foster slugs, even in this day of way too much cost for ammunition, can be found for $2 or less. So both slugs are five to eight.

BINGO! Give that man a ceeee-gar.

 

[ColbyBruce]

A rifled barrel seems to help Sabot slugs fly straighter. As stated above, Foster slugs are grooved to help them spin. Guns vary, so shoot several brands of slugs (if you can find a variety) to determine what works best in your gun.

I strongly recommend Brenekke slugs. They cost more but are well worth it. My brother has a Winchester 1300 12 gauge that will put the 2.75” Brenekkes into a fist size group at 100 yards.

 

[steelslaver]

How is it you can own a rifled 12 gauge that is approx .75 caliber but rifles are limited to .50 cal? Seriously, don't know squat about rifled shotguns or for that mater slug guns as nobody around here uses shotguns for anything but, birds and varmints.

 

[Muss Muggins]

Only the last couple inches of the barrel are rifled . . .

How is it you can own a rifled 12 gauge that is approx .75 caliber but rifles are limited to .50 cal? Seriously, don't know squat about rifled shotguns or for that mater slug guns as nobody around here uses shotguns for anything but, birds and varmints.

 

[Drm50]

I’m probably what you call an expert when it comes to smooth bore slug shooting. I spent years trying to develop or hunch on Ohio’s slug only deer season. I built dozens of slug guns around the time factory models were increasing in sales. You name it and I cut it off and put sights or scope on it. We shot all the time year round, in fall went to all the local slug shoots.
I’ve shot many deer with slugs here in Ohio. The average shot was 40yds.
I’ve shot many at 100 and a few out to 150. The bulk of them were shot with a cut off Browning A5 with 700 Rem rear and Williams shorty ramp and Marble Sherd on front. Never built a gun that wouldn’t do 3-4” at 100.
Many factory barrels won’t do that. I think the older model shotguns I was cutting had better barrels to begin with.
The rifled barrels with the right sabots and scopes ran me out of slug shoots. But I didn’t switch to rifled Guns. I had a few but they weren’t any better for our terrain than smooth bore.
Factory barrels don’t all shoot the same. A good choice would be a smooth bore 870 youth. They are common and usually are good shooters, in 20 or 12. My wife has 1100LT I bought her in 80s. It will do 3” all day. We shoot Brenneke slugs in 12 & 20.
I made my nephew a slug gun out of a bolt action. Cut stock to fit him and cut barrel down. Gun has to be light enough and right length of pull for kid to use properly.
Ohio got rifle few years ago, end of the slug shooting.

 

[GypsmJim]

I'm going to reply to several comments here. Not all are accurate, some are merely an opinion.

I started shooting a 12 ga. at age 13. No problem. I bought my first 20 ga. at age 24 for my wife. She shot it very well, but didn't have a problem with the 12 either. Yes, there is a slight difference, but I would say go with a 12. At worst the boy will grow into it.

Started deer hunting with a smooth bore 18" barrel on a Mossberg 500. Foster slugs were just fine. Sabots were actually worse. Switched to a Mossberg rifled barrel. The Sabots were OK, but the Fosters were noticeably better.

My Mossberg rifled barrel is rifled the full lenght. Don't know about other brands.

Recommendation - buy a Mossberg 12 Ga. with a rifled barrel and use Foster slugs. You can't go wrong. My only reason for not using that combo today is because I prefer the sport of a a handgun.

 

[Fullmetaljacket]

A rifled barrel seems to help Sabot slugs fly straighter. As stated above, Foster slugs are grooved to help them spin. Guns vary, so shoot several brands of slugs (if you can find a variety) to determine what works best in your gun.

I strongly recommend Brenekke slugs. They cost more but are well worth it. My brother has a Winchester 1300 12 gauge that will put the 2.75” Brenekkes into a fist size group at 100 yards.

And those Brenekke slugs are devastating on deer. I've had end to end penetration on good size whitetails on two separate occasions with 12 ga., I imagine 20's would do about the same.

 

[kraynky]

As long as your grandson can hit a paper plate at any give range, a slug will take out a deer in quick order. My stamped "Slug Barrel" for my Mossberg 500 8s a 22" smooth bore. It will hold a 4" group on a paper plate with no scope. I've never tried a sabot slug honestly. The Brenekee slug is all one needs.

You didn't say how old the boy is or if he had any shooting experience under his belt. But making sure the stock is short enough to tuck it in tight, and most youngsters are fine. If you don't wear them out practicing.

Maybe start him out at 50 yards and limit shots to that range. The young man will let you know if it's too much for him. Recoil pads do work, if the stock is cut to the proper length of pull (including the pad).

If he can't shoot a 1w GA bird shot without flinching, drop to a 20. No shame in that. Just don't build a flinch I to him at too young of age.

Looking forward to pictures of dead dear and smiling grandson!

 

[WR Moore]

Which ever gauge you get, consider a barrel with the screw in choke tubes. Adds versatility. If you decide to try sabot slugs, the rifled chokes are supposed to do almost as well as the much more expensive fully rifled barrels.

 

[bob richardson]

SHOTGUN DEER HUNTING

Hunting Illinois whitetail for 40 years.I use a Remington 1100 with a Hastings rifled barrel with 2&3/4" Lightfield 1&1/4oz. sabot slugs.Deadly combination.Taking my son at 12 years old I bought him a 20gauge lightweight Bennelli Nova smoothbore barrel with forester rifled slugs.Kicked like a mule! Sighting in was painful for me too with such a light shotgun.Bought a youth model Mossberg 500 combo12 gauge( 28" mod.barrel and 24" slug barrel)which ended up working out great!Enjoy hunting.

 

[Chubbs103]

I grew up in Ohio using 12 ga. slugs and a .50 muzzle loader. Those were our only options at the time.

In college, I had to ring out the most I could out of the 12 ga. and picked up a fully rifled barrel for my 870. Shooting Federal Premium sabot slugs, it was surprisingly accurate.

My father hunted with a Mossberg 600 with a smoothbore barrel with rifle sights. At 100 yards, it probably shot twice the group as my fancy barrel, but was completely adequate and was much cheaper to feed. I doubt my dad ever pulled the trigger on anything past 50 yards.

It has been decades since I have left Ohio. I still have that slug barrel, and it just sits. A smooth bore with rifle sights or even a barrel set up with a rifled choke and rifle sights would have provided more long term versatility.

I've never fired slugs through a 20 ga. Like previously said, ammo selection can make a big difference. If slugs are like any other ammo, right now, you might have to take what you can get.

 

[Mdclinks]

It may not be necessary but a rifled barrel with sabot slugs, especially in 20ga, is a far superior setup than a smoothbore 20ga with rifled slugs. The sabot slugs out of a rifled barrel will hold elevation and windage much better than anything a smoothbore can produce at almost any distance and significantly beyond 100 yards. I’ve never heard of a smoothbore setup that can consistently hold 1” groups at 100 yards. The same cannot be said about a good sabot and rifled barrel combination. The sabot slugs in 20ga are generally much lighter and roughly run about 400 FPS faster which creates a dramatically flatter trajectory at distance.

In regards to the 12ga vs 20ga question I see no good reason to shoot a 12ga over a 20ga. A 20ga has lighter recoil and more than enough energy to take down a deer of any size.

I’d highly recommend a Savage 220. The newest 220 comes with an adjustable stock that should fit most youth shooters. The accu trigger is also a good option for youth as it can be adjusted to the shooters comfort.

 

[David.Hylton]

Most sabot slugs require a fully rifled barrel. They are usually marked on the box for rifled barrels only. Shoot them through a smooth bore barrel and they will key hole. Some sabot slugs can be used in rifled choke tubes.

Forster slugs shoot fairly accurately out smooth bores, you may have to find slugs that shoot accurately.

Back to your original question. 20 ga. slugs in the same size gun kick much less than 12 ga slugs. Forster slugs kick less than sabot slugs. The Savage 220/212 bolt guns are pretty reasonable. I use a Limbsaver recoil pad on my Browning A-Bolt slug gun.