Walther/Manhurin 22LR PP

[22hipower]

When first buying Walthers my understanding was that the German ones were better than the post WWII Manhurin (French) ones. Found out later that post WWII the Walther factory equipment was moved to France so the Manhurin guns are essentially the same as those made before in Germany. Possible difference I suppose is in the final fitting and finishing although I understand much of that was done in Germany with the parts shipped there. Which is why post WWII Walthers are stamped "Made in W. Germany" or "Made in Germany" although they were actually "made" in France and assembled in Germany. My understanding anyway, if anyone knows otherwise please let us know.

In any case, these are great little guns. (also trying a new photo hosting service so we'll see if the pictures arrive)

Jeff
SWCA #1457

IMG_2310 by

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2n1sCz4] IMG_2309 by

(maybe I've got it figured out now. . . .)

 

[Absalom]

… Found out later that post WWII the Walther factory equipment was moved to France so the Manhurin guns are essentially the same as those made before in Germany. Possible difference I suppose is in the final fitting and finishing although I understand much of that was done in Germany with the parts shipped there. ..

No Walther factory equipment made it out of Zella-Mehlis, but the Walthers had a residence in the West and had made provisions to move files and plans, sufficient to build guns to the same quality standards. When the East Germans, who got the plant but no plans, wanted to continue the PP in 1953 (what became the very short lived 1001 series), they had to reverse-engineer the plans from actual guns.

Walther made calculators from 1946 to 1950 and then air guns. Once German police were allowed to order their own pistols again, and the demand for the Walthers was there, but production of service handguns in Germany was not yet allowed, the license deal with Manurhin came about and production of the PP series started in 1952. From 1957, Manurhin produced both complete guns under its own label, and the parts for assembly of the Walther-marked guns in Germany. This ended acrimoniously in the mid-1980s when Manurhin was taken over by another corporation, Matra.

 

[boykinlp]

22hipower,
I have one of those. Mine is from 1963.
Larry

 

[22hipower]

Thanks for the clarification on post war manufacturing. I use to turn my nose up a bit at the Manurhin guns versus "original German" manufacture but this one shoots better than my "original German" PPK/S 22LR.

This PP Sport was, as far as I can determine, once owned by someone in Sweden and was apparently imported from there. I've since seen a number of others with the same import stamps. Any idea why so many of these apparently went to Sweden? While made in the early '60s it shows only slight use.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

 

[max]

What makes you think it is a Sport? I thought the Sports had a longer barrel that protruded past the slide. That looks like a regular PP to me other than the grip.

What are the words on the right side?

 

[6string]

No Walther factory equipment made it out of Zella-Mehlis, but the Walthers had a residence in the West and had made provisions to move files and plans, sufficient to build guns to the same quality standards. When the East Germans, who got the plant but no plans, wanted to continue the PP in 1953 (what became the very short lived 1001 series), they had to reverse-engineer the plans from actual guns.

Walther made calculators from 1946 to 1950 and then air guns. Once German police were allowed to order their own pistols again, and the demand for the Walthers was there, but production of service handguns in Germany was not yet allowed, the license deal with Manurhin came about and production of the PP series started in 1952. From 1957, Manurhin produced both complete guns under its own label, and the parts for assembly of the Walther-marked guns in Germany. This ended acrimoniously in the mid-1980s when Manurhin was taken over by another corporation, Matra.

Yes, this is correct. No factory equipment was moved, at least in any significant known quantity, out of Germany as WWII concluded.
Besides the French made Manurhin-Walther PP, other manufacturers built Walther designs, usually through negotiations with Karl Walther. This includes the superlative Walther-Hämmerli Olympia Match Pistol, and the Model 1 & 2 .22 LR rifle built by Beretta in Italy. The latter was a novel design, being a magazine fed rifle that could instantly function either as a bolt action or semi-auto.

 

[22hipower]

What makes you think it is a Sport? I thought the Sports had a longer barrel that protruded past the slide. That looks like a regular PP to me other than the grip.

What are the words on the right side?

You are correct, this one is a PP. The shop that had it had three, this one, a PP Sport and a target version (looks like the Sport but with weights); all Manhurin with the brown stocks. I've had this one for a year or so and continue to negotiate on the other two. . . .maybe will show them here eventually. I do have a Sport box though, just waiting for the gun to show up.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

 

[Andyd]

Thanks for the clarification on post war manufacturing. I use to turn my nose up a bit at the Manurhin guns versus "original German" manufacture but this one shoots better than my "original German" PPK/S 22LR.

This PP Sport was, as far as I can determine, once owned by someone in Sweden and was apparently imported from there. I've since seen a number of others with the same import stamps. Any idea why so many of these apparently went to Sweden? While made in the early '60s it shows only slight use.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

While many of the Manurhin PPs are marked with the name of the Swedish distributor, many of those stayed in Germany and were only recently exported from there. Only the Tillhoer Polisen guns went to Sweden and were used by the Swedish police.

 

[22hipower]

While many of the Manurhin PPs are marked with the name of the Swedish distributor, many of those stayed in Germany and were only recently exported from there. Only the Tillhoer Polisen guns went to Sweden and were used by the Swedish police.

Interesting, do we know why they were stamped with the Swedish export/import company name but not actually shipped there? Just curious, thanks.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

 

[Andyd]

Jeff,

that is what I have asked myself many times. I have imported quite a few of these from Germany and had a couple of sellers confirm that they had bought the gun new.
I can only guess, that Astroem had ordered too many and that they had to cancel the order for whatever reasons.