I thought someone might find this interesting.

[CajunBass]

I was digging around in the back of a closet earlier, and found an old box of shotgun shells. I'm not 100% sure how old the box is, but I know I bought them when I was married to my first wife, so they're from 1971 to 1976.

They're Winchester/Western (obviously) 3", 000 buckshot, with 10 pellets to the shell. 000 was brand new then, or at least I'd never heard of it, and I wanted some for the coming season. These were the only ones I could find, a full box of 25. I'd never seen a box of 25 buckshot before, and least not a full one. We used to buy individual shells sometimes from country stores back then, so they may have had a "broken box" in back, but I never saw one that I remember. And I don't think I've ever seen another one since then either. Buckshot is/was usually packed in 5 or ten round boxes. I remember I paid $29.95 for these.

The box has been used over the years to store loose buckshot shells I've accumulated, but there are still a half dozen or so of the original 000's in there. After all that, I didn't use 000 very often, prefering Number 1 buck. I suppose I "loaned" them to others in the club at one time or another. Still, I suppose I got my monies worth out of them.

Just holding one of those long red shells, takes me back to a crisp November morning in Hanover County, Virginia. I just heard a tailgate drop, and listen..."Ol' Blue" has hit already. There's the rest of the pack joining in...He's up and running. The hair on the back of my neck is standing up now. They're heading straight to me.

 

[Aircrewman]

Wow! Just knocked some cobwebs and plaque around my brain....! I remember 25 round boxes of 00 Buck ammo. I remember buying several many years ago, probably around the mid-70s. I think that I bought them from F. Morton Pitt in San Gabriel, California.....That was a long time ago....!

 

[desi2358]

25 round boxes are less common but I used to order them for the store all through the 2000/2012 period. They sold well at the gun shows where we did a lot of our ammo business. Easier to find foreign (S&B, RIO, etc.) than US brands but we did occasionally get Winchester and Federal (Law enforcement overruns I suspect). I think the US makers concentrate on the smaller quantity boxes more, likely appeals to the casual buyer and I suspect they make a better profit margin on the smaller boxes as well.

 

[Rpg]

I have a 25 round box of Winchester 00 buck purchased in the ‘70s somewhere in the basement.

I didn’t have a use for them when I bought them: they were the object of some gun control initiative at the time that sent everyone buying ammo in fear of not being able to get the stuff.

I bought two boxes (50 rounds). I shot most of one box in a disappointing effort to test performance. The stuff wouldn’t pattern worth a hoot in any of my guns. I concluded that a standard trap load of 1 1/8 oz of #7 1/2 shot was a much better choice for hd than 00 buckshot.

 

[DWalt]

I have maybe 8 or 10 25-round boxes of 12 gauge 00 Buck shells. Remington, Winchester, and Estate (Federal). I imagine they are still made, probably more for law enforcement customers than anyone else. All the Military 00 Buck loads I have seen have been in 5 round boxes.

For home defense use, I think I would rather use larger diameter birdshot sizes, maybe #2 or #4. Should work very well at across-the-living-room distances, without excessive wall/door penetration. Some LE agencies prefer #4B to 00B.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

......

For home defense use, I think I would rather use larger diameter birdshot sizes, maybe #2 or #4. Should work very well at across-the-living-room distances, without excessive wall/door penetration. Some LE agencies prefer #4B to 00B.

I agree, I use #4 Buckshot in my HD shotgun. I think 27 pellets of .24", almost 25 caliber shot at once is very effective, IMO of course.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

I agree, I use #4 Buckshot in my HD shotgun. I think 27 pellets of .24", almost 25 caliber shot at once is very effective, IMO of course.

I 1968 there was a riot at the Ohio Pen in Columbus. To rescue the hostages there was a two prong attack. The ground prong blew a hole through the stone wall and two columns of police, fire fighters and paramedics charged through. My father-in-law led one of the columns. He carried a Stevens riot gun in 12 gauge (the Stevens could be slammed fired just by holding the trigger), on his left hip was a sack carrying 12 gauge 2 3/4" No4 Buck. He had no recollection of firing, but the bag was 3/4 empty when the day was over.

For a while in the late 80's Federal made 2 3/4" Premium in 12 and 20 gauge No4 buck with copper plated pellets, but I haven't found any 20 gauge in years. This was my go to SD round on the farm. Now, in the condo I use 1 1/8 ounce 7.5 birdshot @ 1325fps for SD because of close neighbors.

Ivan

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

I agree, I use #4 Buckshot in my HD shotgun. I think 27 pellets of .24", almost 25 caliber shot at once is very effective, IMO of course.

ANYTHING you shoot out of a shotgun(no matter what size shot) is going to shoot and enter like a slug inside at house distances......NO time and distance allowed at room distance to allow ANY shot pattern to open.

Measure your largest room diagonally. Avg will be 20 ft +/-. Set up a piece of paper and shoot it...........You will be surprised.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

ANYTHING you shoot out of a shotgun(no matter what size shot) is going to shoot and enter like a slug inside at house distances......NO time and distance allowed at room distance to allow ANY shot pattern to open.

Measure your largest room diagonally. Avg will be 20 ft +/-. Set up a piece of paper and shoot it...........You will be surprised.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. All I was saying is I think #4 Buckshot will be very effective against soft tissue and bone, that's why I put it in my SD shotgun, no other reason.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. All I was saying is I think #4 Buckshot will be very effective against soft tissue and bone, that's why I put it in my SD shotgun, no other reason. x_DC DC x x x xXxX xXxX

So will #4 coppe plated Turkey loads.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

So will #4 coppe plated Turkey loads.

I never said it wouldn't so like I said, what was the point. All I did was agree with another post and voiced my preference. I didn't understand what point you were making at me?

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

During tests done at the Columbus Police Acadamy in the early to mid 60's, It was found: Using a 18 to 20" Cylinder Choke 12 gauge, No.4 Buck would only spread no more than 1" per yard from muzzle. That means, at 25 yards the pattern would be 25 inches in diameter. 000 buckshot maintained even tighter patterns. So at inside a house distances, patterns are pretty much 10" or smaller.

That's one of the reasons I went with 1 1/8 ounce #7.5 @ 1325 fps as my SD load when I moved inside town. Double the size pattern indoors and most likely no shots outdoors! Judging from sound transmission, The walls between the condos are something like standard framing and drywall which offers no protection to my neighbors at a 90 degree shot with any buckshot and not a lot with bird shot at close distances of 5 or less yards!

25 to 30 years ago I tested shot size penetration on an old farmhouse about to be torn down. It had the old wood lath and inch thick plaster walls. No 4 Buck, at 90 degrees still blew a fist sized hole out the far side of the wall at across the hall distances (no more than 2 yards), But "Down the hall" angles of close to 90 degrees, No 4 Buck didn't enter side rooms (because of the studs) and #6, 7.5, & 8 birdshot didn't even penetrate the plaster but bounced around the hallway! Drywall absorbs the small shot at almost 90 degree deflection.

The modern hollow core interior doors of most homes, apartments, and condos are NO barrier to any shot size at indoor distances! The modern steel sheathed and foam filled exterior doors are shot and small caliber handgun bullet proof at even 3 yards! (In my apartments fmj 9mm and 38's didn't penetrate the front doors at drive-by distances of 20 yards or more!)

Ivan

 

[DWalt]

Somewhere I have a report of buckshot performance from tests done at FLETC -Glynco but I don’t know where it is. There were several shot sizes and several ammunition brands involved. About all I remember was that the spread was approximately one inch per yard overall, but there were significant differences among individual guns and ammunition brands. When I was with the USAF, I did some similar buckshot performance testing, and also found some spread differences among different shotguns I used in the tests, which were Remington 870s, Mossberg 590s, and one Winchester 1200, all with cylinder bores. That was over 15 years ago, so I don’t remember the details.

 

[Skeet 028]

I did a lot of buckshot testing in the past. Loaded most of my own. I was however looking for a very long range waterfowl load. I was always toldd buck shoots best from open cyl or at the tightest IC choke. Couldn't be farther from the truth...at least in most guns. I found a load that would do a real job on geese at up to 100 yds with plated lead T buck. The big factor was knowing the leads. I also came to the conclusion that 4 buck was the largest to use in a house range SD load. But figured the best SD load for house range was a couple 7 1/2 or 8s followed by good plated 5s or 6s. 7 1/2s at even 75 YARDS don't feel like much fun. My wife has her favorite house gun, a Ruger SA in 45 Colt loaded with 2 rounds of snake shot(8s) with 4 rounds of 250 gr SWC. She also has a BUG in 9mm. We're gonna go shoot again tomorrow. I want to find her a reliable 22 pocket pistol or revolver too. I consider a shotgun the best SD gun indoors except for the length

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

I did a lot of buckshot testing in the past. Loaded most of my own. I was however looking for a very long range waterfowl load. I was always toldd buck shoots best from open cyl or at the tightest IC choke. Couldn't be farther from the truth...at least in most guns. I found a load that would do a real job on geese at up to 100 yds with plated lead T buck. The big factor was knowing the leads. I also came to the conclusion that 4 buck was the largest to use in a house range SD load. But figured the best SD load for house range was a couple 7 1/2 or 8s followed by good plated 5s or 6s. 7 1/2s at even 75 YARDS don't feel like much fun. My wife has her favorite house gun, a Ruger SA in 45 Colt loaded with 2 rounds of snake shot(8s) with 4 rounds of 250 gr SWC. She also has a BUG in 9mm. We're gonna go shoot again tomorrow. I want to find her a reliable 22 pocket pistol or revolver too. I consider a shotgun the best SD gun indoors except for the length

's

When we run deer with dogs I always have an extra full turkey choke in my 12 ga.. It patterns Buckshot best of all. Also my Win mdl 12 & 97 both 32 in full, patterns tight with buckshot. I've been playing with buckshot for over 50 years.

The cyl bore best with buckshot is an old wives tale an should be laid to rest.....It's a tale spewed by people that have never used buckshot in real world situations.

 

[mscampbell2734]

Buckshot, just like any other shot size, does respond to choke. The issue for law enforcement or SD shooters is if the gun is going to also be used with slugs.

Slugs can be shot out of a fixed choked barrel as tight as modified. Tighter then modified and depending on the construction the slug can heavily lead the bore and even be deformed, causing loss of accuracy.

When using interchangable chokes I'd never go tighter then IC with slugs. I don't have any first hand experience with tighter chokes and slugs but several people I know have experienced the choke tube threads becoming deformed/damaged