The Walther was designed to shoot 32 acp and the change to the 380 made it a jammo-matic. The German army used the 32acp not the 380 in both wars. The 380 was substandard for them and did not pass the penetration test of putting a horse down with a head shot or punching through a Helmut like the 7.65mm did in German Army tests.
Historcal Jamming PPK
- Thread starter Tom 1951
- Start date
I have an L66A1 as well. It’s also near perfect with just about anything - provided I limit it to 8 rounds in the magazine. But that’s a magazine issue, there are no new replacements, and buying a used one is a $100+ gamble.
I had an S&W made PPK/S. My wife bought it for me. It was unreliable from the start and was eventually subject to not one but two recalls. At recall number 2, I traded it to the local gun shop on a second stainless steel Ranger made PPK/S.
Alll S&W had to do was leave the design alone, but instead they messed with the tang, messed with the grip frame and made a few other “improvements”.
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As far as licensed clones go, the Manurhin made PP series pistols were better than the Walthers made during that time period (mid 50s to 1984).
During that time period Walther sent slide and frame forgings across the border to Manurhin who then machined, finished and assembled Manurhin marked pistols. Manurhin also machined and finished frames and small parts, and then sent them with a machined but unfinished and unroll marked slide to Walther. Walther then roll marked, heat treated and finished the slide, and then assembled the pistol and called it a Walther “made in Germany”. Given the two different finishing processes the bluing on the slide and small parts normally doesn’t quite match the bluing on the slide.
After 1984 when Walther cancelled the agreement and produced the PP series entirely in house, quality suffered.
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I’m not sure where the Browning HP found it’s way into the discussion, but I agree with the concerns about the Glock, at least for concealed carry. I’m not one to ever recommend a Glock be carried in concealed carry as it was designed for use in a properly designed duty holster than both fully covers the trigger and allows totally un impeded reholstering of the pistol.
Unless the concealed carry user understands that and uses a holster that keeps the trigger fully covered, and is easily removable so the Glock pistol can be reholstered with the holder and handgun out in front where the shooter can verify the trigger is unobstructed, it’s a “Glock Leg” waiting to be born.
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The Walther PP series were the first semi auto pistols to be equipped with a DA trigger and Walther included a decocking lever in the design. It was incredibly innovative for 1929 and in contrast to the Glock was designed with an eye towards concealed carry as well as duty use.
The original intent was for the lever to be used to de cock the pistol after firing, with the lever being returned to the up position. It’s use as a decocking lever and then left in the down position as a safety was at most an option. It’s use as a “safety” as a default use was a lawyer inspired change decades later.
Stating it was a safety cleared up any import point issues after 1968 for the PP and PPK/S and in the last 5 overly litigious decades since we screwed up and allowed lawyers to advertise, it has added a layer of lawsuit protection.
In reality the PP series have heavy DA triggers with long trigger pulls, and the DA pull not something that can be lightened due to the geometry of the design.
Once you master it, the long heavy DA pull isn’t an impediment to accuracy, and it makes it very suitable for concealed carry with the decocker lever up and the pistol ready to fire. You really have to stuff it into the holster hard with an obstruction in the trigger guard to keep it go bang, and if you put your thumb over the back of the hammer, you feel it coming back as the hammer is pulled, just like a revolver.
In effect, the PP took those DA revolver “safety” concepts and applied them to a semi auto pistol.
I do ballistic testing jus becuz, and in my experience the .32 ACP is badly under rated. It offers identical or slightly better penetration in ballistic gel than a comparable .380 ACP load. In terms of hollow point performance a 60 gr XTP will penetrate a bit over 12”, and expand, at the 1050 fps and 1100 fps obtainable in the PPK and PPK/S.
You get a bit smaller wound track, but you get an extra round in the magazine and the ability to deliver the lower recoiling .32 ACP rounds much faster and with better accuracy. I don’t feel any more under gunned with a .32 ACP than with a .380 ACP.
Given that most BHPs owned by the UK MOD had the original miniscule thumb safeties, getting the pistol off safe quickly could be a major issue. Song and story had it that, in different parts of the world, some users of the BHP simply carried cocked & unlocked.
Carrying in condition 3 is common in many militaries for various reasons.
The Israelis employed their Hi Powers that way, but that wasn’t due to the safety. It was due to their having a hodgepodge of surplus semi auto pistols and needing a manual of arms that worked with all of them.
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Other militaries use and continue to use Condition 1 as the threats don’t usually suddenly appear without at least a few seconds warning and the troops involved have time to rack the slide. The trade off in time and the need for two hands is offset by the greater difficulty of poorly trained troops having a negligent discharge when they have to chamber a round first.
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The major problem with the Hi Power safety is that it is mushy and doesn’t have a noticeable click that can be felt and heard when it is applied or removed.
I have a number of Hi Powers and P9 copies with both early small, and later larger safeties and have never found the small safety to be a problem when drawing and firing the gun.
The exception to this occurs when someone combines the small safety with a thicker and higher than normal set of grips as is the case with the FEG P9 below. The top for the grip is slightly higher to better accommodate a modern high grip, and while not a huge increase in the top of the grip panel, when combined with the thicker grip panel it’s enough to bury the small safety enough to make it harder to hit with the thumb.
But that’s not the gun’s fault, it’s a failure of the shooter to consider the whole thing as a system when making so called “upgrades”.
The Preacher
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I have a blued Interarms PPK in 380 acp that has eaten absolutely everything I've ever fed it, from hollow points of various designs to flat and round nose FMJ's. My only complaint with it is it's a rip to get the last round in the magazine and not the easiest slide to rack. Other than that she's a gem.
The Preacher
The Preacher
jmiles1960
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My 70's era PPK/S in .22 LR won't reliably work with any ammo except CCI Mini-Mags. My guess is the higher velocity round. An unreliable and disappointing pistol IMO. A new set of spring(s) might help the issue. I plan to find it a new home.
40 yrs ago when I first got into handguns most autos were expected to jam occasionally.I remember people talking about a model that would be reliable enough to carry.That why the clearing drills were a mandatory part of your training.The Walther PPK /PPKs is from that time frame with an older design dating back a few more decades.
Well … this incident was almost 50 years ago. Times and technology have changed a bit since 1974.
I have both a PP and a PPK in 7.65. Reliable and accurate, they are souvenirs of the Cold War I brought back from Germany decades ago. They are not safe queens and are shot regularly.
The PPK, a commercial model from 1965, remembered mostly as James Bond's sidearm and a victim of the GCA '68.
The 1969 Walther PP, is Bayerische Staatliche Polizei surplus when the Status of Forces Agreement allowed them to be sold dirt cheap in military rod and gun clubs.
The PPK, a commercial model from 1965, remembered mostly as James Bond's sidearm and a victim of the GCA '68.
The 1969 Walther PP, is Bayerische Staatliche Polizei surplus when the Status of Forces Agreement allowed them to be sold dirt cheap in military rod and gun clubs.
In the early ‘80s a bunch from the PD purchased PPKs from Interarms in Alexandria. The company did a fluff & buff job on every one, no charge, knowing cops were buying them. Some detectives carried them in lieu of the issued Model 10 snub w/written OK from the agency & range officer after qualifying w/it.
Gene L
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I won a case of beer from a LE instructor who bet me I couldn't finish the course of fire without jamming my PPK/S. I not only finished the course, I finished first in the class. None of my P-guns has ever jammed. They don't do well with a limp wrist and I believe the tendency for slide bite may invite limp wristing. However, my pistol wasn't the first PPK the instructor ever saw so unreliability does exist on some level. I was shooting FMJ and that's all I ever shoot. HPs may not work as well.
Have 380/32 acp stainless Interarms PPK's. Always been reliable with fmj or hp's tried, and the 380 is exceptionally accurate. Was at range shooting the 380 one day, and let a large friend try it out. He couldn't get off 3 rounds without it jamming, and got disgusted with it. Took it back and went through 2 full mags without a hiccup. Small pistols, especially blowbacks, seem tougher for people with larger hands to get solid grip on. When fist bought it, the rear of 380 slide could draw blood. Quickly learned to ease over the sharpened rear slide edges responsible.
Also have a Manhuriin (spelling) PP in 32 acp that is extremely accurate/reliable.
Yes they are heavy compared to what is now commonly available. But they are compact and and all steel excepting the grips.
Also have a Manhuriin (spelling) PP in 32 acp that is extremely accurate/reliable.
Yes they are heavy compared to what is now commonly available. But they are compact and and all steel excepting the grips.
Most of the "small" 22 pistols are finicky about ammo. I've owned a number of them over the years and they all had very definite ammo preferences.
03hemi
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Sounds about right, you're not gonna limp wrist this little pistol and have good results I'd imagine?According to Officer James Beaton's testimony in an interview, he had been shot in the shoulder prior to his attempt to draw and fire the PPK. He said that he was unable to hold the gun properly because of the injury and the gun "jammed". He doesn't provide any more details about the pistol, and whether or not he actually fired a shot, or what caliber the gun was.
The article below says he was able to "fire a round" before the gun jammed.
The Boxer That Saved a Princess: “Not Bloody Likely!” - GunsAmerica Digest
I only have one Walther, a PPK that my dad brought back from Germany after WW2. The serial number dates to 1939. It's always been reliable, although I haven't shot it very much.
Maybe they'll catch on one day.
KSDeputy
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I collect new Walther pistols, just because I like the way they look. I have two PPK in .380, one PPK/S in .380, a TPH in .22, I just bought a nickel PPK/S in .22. I have other guns to shoot, and I carry a .45. I collect proof silver coins because I like the way they look and for our retirement. I also collect law enforcement challenge coins. I imagine I broke some rule with this post, I usually do.
The small (original) safety BHPs I encountered had very stiff, hard to move safeties. Perhaps well worn/better fitted guns do better.
Not mutually exclusive traits. In this case “mushy” just means no distinct “click” or feel of a click to tell you it’s now moved enough to be on or off.
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