Will an old S&W 38 special revolver do for home defense?

[Hello86]

You are right, not much difference in the pressures. It is the wear and tear on the older metals. Like I stated the M1911's in the military were wearing out from usage and metal fatigue.......keep in mind these were military pistols always shooting 230 grain Hardball to Government spec's. If you are willing to pay for a magnaflux of the handguns and it passes then shoot all the +P you want. If you do not want the test done, then stay with standard velocity .38 Special. Have seen chunks missing out of guns and it s not a pretty sight. Especially if it is a prized possession (like Grandpa's gun).

I'm getting a bit confused. But what do you think about what people write here, that new +p ammo is as strong (or even weaker) as regular 38 special ammo was back in the day with these old 38 special revolvers and that therefore there shouldn't be any difference, so why would it then wear and tear?

 

[Hello86]

Now that you have read this thread you will sleep more soundly with it loaded with JHP ammunition. The nickname for the 158 gr. RNL was “The Widowmaker” by cops due to it’s lack of stopping power. The Widowmaker referred to the user, not the criminal.

Thanks for the info, but is it really true? I just found this thread about it: Bad Load? The .38 Special 158 gr. RNL

 

[Hello86]

Thank you all, for all the tips on good ammo.

I was looking for 38 special ammo where I live, and this is what I personally can get my hands on, to use in, say, a S&W model 15. If only you guys could choose between these types of ammo, for home defense, that should be good enough power to stop the threat, but who also take into account that I live in an apartment, with the neighbor's door opposite to mine, so want to take as much responsibility as possible to reduce the risk of hitting the innocents.

Here they are:

FIOCCHI:

-148 gr Wad Cutter.
- 158 gr LRN.
-158 gr SJSP.
- 110 gr FMJTC Black Mamba.

Magtech:

- Magtech 38A .38 SPL, LRN.
- Magtech 38B

Geco:

- Geco 38spl 148gr WC.
- Geco 38 spl 158gr.
- Geco 38spl wadcutter.
- Geco 38spl FMJ-FN
- Geco 38spl CR RN
- Geco 38spl jhp

PMC:

- PMC 38SA 130gr +p FMJ

Sellier & Bellot:

-Sellier & Bellot .38spl LRN

Partizan:

- Partizan 38 Special FPJ, 158 grain.
- Partizan 38 Super Auto (+P) FMJ 130 Grain.

Federal Premium:

- Federal Premium 38 Special LWC Match 148gr.

Hornady:

- Hornady Critical Defense® Ammunition 38 SPCL Lite 90 gr FTX®
- Hornady Critical Defense® Ammunition 38 SPCL 110 gr FTX®
- Hornady Critical Defense® Ammunition 38 SPCL+P 110 gr FTX®
- Hornady American Gunner® Ammunition 38 SPCL 125 gr XTP®
- Hornady Custom™ Pistol Ammunition 38 SPCL 158 gr XTP®

Blazer:

- 38 Special Brass FMJ 125gr

Speer Bullets:

- Speer Jacketed HP Bullets 38 Cal (.357) 110gr
- Speer Jacketed HP Bullets 38 Cal (.357) 125gr
-Speer Jacketed HP Bullets 38 Cal (.357) JHP 158gr
- Speer Bullets Target 38 Caliber (.357") TMJ FN 158gr

 

[John Patrick]

Thanks for the info, but is it really true? I just found this thread about it: Bad Load? The .38 Special 158 gr. RNL

Any rounded nose non expanding bullet is a poor choice, whether lead of FMJ. The round nose tends to part flesh and organs rather the cut and crush, leaving a minimal temporary or permanent wound channel. Round nose bullets will tumble in flesh if they decelerate sufficiently before passing through the target. They also tend to veer in flesh and organs.

A non expanding flat nose with a relatively sharp shoulder, like a wadcutter or semi wadcutter, cuts a whole through flesh and organs and penetration is straight and deep, creating a substantially larger temporary and permanent wound channel than a rounded nose bullet. If driven fast enough they have the potential for over penetration though.

An expanding bullet, properly matched for the velocity of the load, will cut and crush flesh and organs while creating a wider temporary and permanent wound channel that is sufficiently deep to reach vital organs from most angles. Because the expanded frontal area reduces penetration, the potential for over penetration is significantly reduced.

 

[John Patrick]

Thank you all, for all the tips on good ammo.

I was looking for 38 special ammo where I live, and this is what I personally can get my hands on, to use in, say, a S&W model 15. If only you guys could choose between these types of ammo, for home defense, that should be good enough power to stop the threat, but who also take into account that I live in an apartment, with the neighbor's door opposite to mine, so want to take as much responsibility as possible to reduce the risk of hitting the innocents.

Here they are:

FIOCCHI:

-148 gr Wad Cutter.
- 158 gr LRN.
-158 gr SJSP.
- 110 gr FMJTC Black Mamba.

Magtech:

- Magtech 38A .38 SPL, LRN.
- Magtech 38B

Geco:

- Geco 38spl 148gr WC.
- Geco 38 spl 158gr.
- Geco 38spl wadcutter.
- Geco 38spl FMJ-FN
- Geco 38spl CR RN
- Geco 38spl jhp

PMC:

- PMC 38SA 130gr +p FMJ

Sellier & Bellot:

-Sellier & Bellot .38spl LRN

Partizan:

- Partizan 38 Special FPJ, 158 grain.
- Partizan 38 Super Auto (+P) FMJ 130 Grain.

Federal Premium:

- Federal Premium 38 Special LWC Match 148gr.

Hornady:

- Hornady Critical Defense® Ammunition 38 SPCL Lite 90 gr FTX®
- Hornady Critical Defense® Ammunition 38 SPCL 110 gr FTX®
- Hornady Critical Defense® Ammunition 38 SPCL+P 110 gr FTX®
- Hornady American Gunner® Ammunition 38 SPCL 125 gr XTP®
- Hornady Custom™ Pistol Ammunition 38 SPCL 158 gr XTP®

Blazer:

- 38 Special Brass FMJ 125gr

Speer Bullets:

- Speer Jacketed HP Bullets 38 Cal (.357) 110gr
- Speer Jacketed HP Bullets 38 Cal (.357) 125gr
-Speer Jacketed HP Bullets 38 Cal (.357) JHP 158gr
- Speer Bullets Target 38 Caliber (.357") TMJ FN 158gr

Of the choices you list, if the Speer is loaded ammunition (as opposed to component bullets,) I would select the 125gr load. Second choice would be the Hornaday 125gr XTP.

But I’d order a box of Buffalo Bore 158gr +P SWCHP-GC or Speer 135gr Gold Dot Short Barrel +P ammo.

 

[AJ]

No matter what you pick for ammo is no good if you can not hit your target. Accuracy is crucial. so practice. Competition can put some stress on you that may help if you ever need to use a weapon in self defense.

 

[AJ]

More important than the ammo is bullet placement. You want to be able to accurate place 2-3 rounds in a group the size of a paper plate. The maximum distance that you can do this with-in 2-3 seconds should be YOUR maximum distance. This 10" plate is about the size of a man's vitals.

PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!

When I went to the FBI Firearms Instructors Course, we had to shoot a target that was called "Final Defensive Fire" IIRC. It was from the holster at 3 yards (21 feet) and you emptied your gun. I was using a M1911 at the time, I fired all 8 rounds in 1.8 seconds and got all A hits. So as Muley says PRACTICE and more PRACTICE.

 

[djohns6]

A couple of +P rounds fired in defense of your life is not going to destroy your gun . I wouldn't fire multiple boxes of the stuff at the range though .

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

"Speed (and power) are fine but accuracy's final."
"Only the hits count."
In defense of FMJ it usually penetrates better, thick clothing, body fat, etc.

 

[glenwolde]

I've kept a nickel plate Model 15 for that purpose in my nightstand for nigh on 45 years now ever since I bought it new at a pawnshop in Houston.

I find the cartridge adequate, especially loaded to its original potential from the 4" barrel. A pair of speed-loaders stay with it.

Yes, I have guns with much more capacity but in a stressful situation I think I'll do better with the Model 15 as I have fired many tens of thousands of rounds through K-frame revolvers over the decades. I'll stick with what I'm most familiar with.

 

[bigwheelzip]

I'm thinking that lower recoil, being able to hit the target faster multiple times, and less risk of over-penetration and hurting innocents, seem like big advantages to using the 38 special. Also, don't be blinded by the flash in the middle of the night, and don't destroy ones hearing, with the thunderous bang of the 357 magnum indoors.

Yes, but ....... it's a bit more complicated than these caliber generalizations. Firearm weight and barrel length effect recoil, sound, flash and ballistic effects as much or more than ammo choice.

Apples to apples example. The same 158gr .357 round is a loud handful of recoil in my 2.5 inch 686, but an easy and quieter shoot from the 4 inch 686.

Taken to extremes, .357 from my 24 inch Rossi 92 lever rifle is far quieter and easier to shoot than any handgun I own. That's why it's my go-to for HD.

That aside. Under stress, I shoot my 9mm carry better than my revolvers, so that's my HD handgun. But, just in case, I keep the revolvers loaded with 125gr HP .357, because I shoot them well from my 686s and I believe it's the most effective for that task.





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[bigwheelzip]

When I went to the FBI Firearms Instructors Course, we had to shoot a target that was called "Final Defensive Fire" IIRC. It was from the holster at 3 yards (21 feet) and you emptied your gun.

That's familiar. Took a private class from the former local SWAT team instructor. One part of it was he started the target at 5 and 7 yards, then flipped the retrieve switch on the powered target trolly. Draw and keep firing until the target smacks you in the face. Good stress simulator.




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[AJ]

That's familiar. Took a private class from the former local SWAT team instructor. One part of it was he started the target at 5 and 7 yards, then flipped the retrieve switch on the powered target trolly. Draw and keep firing until the target smacks you in the face. Good stress simulator.




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We did a lot of man on man competition when I was assigned to the Marine Corps Security Battalion. Two shooters side by side with the same set of targets. Start with a holstered gun, hands in the air and on command draw and start shooting until all your targets are down. Winner is the quickest and most accurate. Adrenaline is flowing to beat the other guy and win. As close to getting into a gunfight as you can get short of squaring off against each other.

 

[Muley Gil]

I'm getting a bit confused. But what do you think about what people write here, that new +p ammo is as strong (or even weaker) as regular 38 special ammo was back in the day with these old 38 special revolvers and that therefore there shouldn't be any difference, so why would it then wear and tear?

The answer is two words: Liability lawyers.

A LOT of folks aren't dedicated shooters. If it says ".38 special" on the box of ammo, they are going to buy it and stick in a revolver that says ".38 special" on the barrel. That might be a brand new S&W or Grandpop's pre WWI relic. If Grandpop's revolver gets damage, who do you think they are going blame-themselves or Winchester, Remington, Federal, etc.?

So, the lawyers said, make the ammo so that it will be safe in ANY revolver.

 

[LoadedRound]

Well. My choice for HD is a 4" M65, loaded with 158gr +P LSWCHP "FBI" loads. I'm comfortable with that.

 

[SWFan27]

Thank you all, for all the tips on good ammo.

I was looking for 38 special ammo where I live, and this is what I personally can get my hands on, to use in, say, a S&W model 15. If only you guys could choose between these types of ammo, for home defense, that should be good enough power to stop the threat, but who also take into account that I live in an apartment, with the neighbor's door opposite to mine, so want to take as much responsibility as possible to reduce the risk of hitting the innocents.

Here they are:

FIOCCHI:

-148 gr Wad Cutter.
- 158 gr LRN.
-158 gr SJSP.
- 110 gr FMJTC Black Mamba.

Magtech:

- Magtech 38A .38 SPL, LRN.
- Magtech 38B

Geco:

- Geco 38spl 148gr WC.
- Geco 38 spl 158gr.
- Geco 38spl wadcutter.
- Geco 38spl FMJ-FN
- Geco 38spl CR RN
- Geco 38spl jhp

PMC:

- PMC 38SA 130gr +p FMJ

Sellier & Bellot:

-Sellier & Bellot .38spl LRN

Partizan:

- Partizan 38 Special FPJ, 158 grain.
- Partizan 38 Super Auto (+P) FMJ 130 Grain.

Federal Premium:

- Federal Premium 38 Special LWC Match 148gr.

Hornady:

- Hornady Critical Defense® Ammunition 38 SPCL Lite 90 gr FTX®
- Hornady Critical Defense® Ammunition 38 SPCL 110 gr FTX®
- Hornady Critical Defense® Ammunition 38 SPCL+P 110 gr FTX®
- Hornady American Gunner® Ammunition 38 SPCL 125 gr XTP®
- Hornady Custom™ Pistol Ammunition 38 SPCL 158 gr XTP®

Blazer:

- 38 Special Brass FMJ 125gr

Speer Bullets:

- Speer Jacketed HP Bullets 38 Cal (.357) 110gr
- Speer Jacketed HP Bullets 38 Cal (.357) 125gr
-Speer Jacketed HP Bullets 38 Cal (.357) JHP 158gr
- Speer Bullets Target 38 Caliber (.357") TMJ FN 158gr

I would go with the Speer or Hornady 125 or even the 158 grain. Don't forget about buying online. Many ammo makers now have stuff in stock. And there are online sellers like Gunbroker.com and Ammo Seek. In states like California you will need to have your pruchase shipped to a FFL/local gun shop. They will charge you $20 or so for their time and trouble.

 

[Muley Gil]

Hello86,

Any of these rounds would be fine for self defense:

Hornady:

- Hornady Critical Defense® Ammunition 38 SPCL Lite 90 gr FTX®
- Hornady Critical Defense® Ammunition 38 SPCL 110 gr FTX®
- Hornady Critical Defense® Ammunition 38 SPCL+P 110 gr FTX®
- Hornady American Gunner® Ammunition 38 SPCL 125 gr XTP®
- Hornady Custom™ Pistol Ammunition 38 SPCL 158 gr XTP®

Any of the 148 grain wadcutters would be fine for practice.

As to my bonafides, I was a police officer for 25 years, an international police officer in Kosovo for 2 years, a police advisor in Afghanistan for 3 years and an armed security officer working in a Federal office building for 7+ years.

I was also a certified NRA law enforcement handgun/shotgun instructor.

 

[bmcgilvray]

Some boutique ammunition makers' +P .38 Special loadings aside, most +P .38 Special ammunition being sold isn't worth the amount of ink it cost to print "+P" on the box, as it consists of light weight jacketed bullets loaded to weak and watery velocities.

After reading of +P dithering for years, on this forum as well as other forums, I "took one for the team" and once experimented with some +P .38 Special ammunition in a ratty ol' 1904 vintage Military & Police kept on hand here.

Ammunition from two boxes of different lots of factory Winchester +P 158 grain lead semi-wadcutter hollow point ammunition along with one box of Remington +P 158 grain lead semi-wadcutter hollow point were fired and chronograph tested. A handload of 5.2 grains of Unique under a cast lead 158 grain semi-wadcutter was also tested. 40 rounds total were tested in 10-round strings.

The revolver handled the tests with aplomb.

The revolver was inspected before sitting down to shoot it. Despite its shabby appearance it was tight and mechanically sound with a good bore. After the tests it was inspected again. No cracks, bulged cylinder walls were observed and the revolver and it remained as tight as before the tests.

No precision measurements were taken of the revolver before and after. No magnafluxing was done. It could blow up the next time it's fired, but I'm confident that it won't.

It's seen some range use and plinking sessions in the years since the tests and always gives complete satisfaction for the purpose.


A 1921 vintage Colt Police Positive Special and a 1914 vintage Colt Army Special have also been subjected to limited +P test with the same loads. They didn't rupture a gut either.

Everything "vintage" is "collectible" these days and it's not considered expedient to subject one's high condition vintage revolvers to shooting use. Still, the revolvers will take it.

I'm not going to subject the now 118 year old revolver to a steady diet of "real" +P ammunition, but then I'm not subjecting any .38 Special here to shooting large quantities of +P ammunition. I'd use +P with no hesitation in a pinch if an emergency dictated it.

 

[Marshal Tom]

Way too much attention has been given to this +P issue. The way that the manufacturers have watered down their loading, almost any fairly modern S&W revolver will not be affected in the least by using those loads for HD, SD. Don't worry about it.

 

[JMalone]

I would bet that every member on this Forum has at least one Mod-10
tucked in the house, shop, car or truck.

Probably true, but one of my model 10’s is .357….lol