Will an old S&W 38 special revolver do for home defense?

[kmyers]

The .38 Special will be as fine as can be. One of the handguns we have loaded here is a Ruger SP101, it is .357 but is loaded with .38 Special + P.

 

[OLDSTER]

I love these threads. Home defense, IMO, refers to a home "intruder". However, many of the replies infer a home "invasion". I'll stand by my little old .38 and my little old 158gr RNL ammo to protect from an "intruder". If my home is "invaded", I'll raise my hands and surrender. Thankyou very much.

 

[jmace57]

My carry gun and one of my home defense guns is a .38 special...with wadcutters no less!

 

[Doug M.]

The points made about ability to shoot better are valid. Most of the time my M66 is loaded with standard velocity .38 SWC. I would do the same with my K38. It will work pretty well, and has the right bullet shape. Even WC are better than you think. (I am more used to and prefer auto pistols, preferably with red dots, and a long gun trumps a pistol, but a .38 loaded as above beats the heck out of hope and harsh words.)

Placement is biggest single factor - you should learn the proper places to hit for best effect. It's an area smaller than a grocery bag, defined roughly by vertical lines through the nipples, a horizontal line through the nipples at the bottom, and a vertical line more or less through the shoulders/bottom of the throat at the top. Take a 3X5 and put in roughly the center of that area on yourself. Take another to simulate the neck/throat (spine) and then draw a triangle from the outside corners of eyes to the bottom of the nose. Those are the high percentage areas to hit really vital organs and stop and assailant. (Whether he or she lives or dies is not important - it's how fast the assaultive actions are stopped.)

The reality is that a home intrusion is rare. Many of them are criminals targeting other criminals, or people they otherwise think have valuables. Live a low profile life. Make your home unattractive to those not invited (fencing, lights, dog(s). Anyone who was not invited should be afraid to come to your home. Never have a door unlocked unless you are going through it. Don't answer the door if you are not expecting someone - stand back and to the side and yell. If you offend some solicitor or other uninvited person, that's their fault, not yours.

 

[walnutred]

Thank you all, for the answers och tips.

A few more follow-up questions.


One of the arguments I read somewhere, for a more powerful ammunition like 357 magnum, is that under stressful situations, even if one have practiced a lot, it is difficult to shoot accurate shot placement on vital organs such as the heart, when the target is moving quickly in different directions and angles, and that therefore it can be good with more powerful ammunition, because it does a lot of damage and more damage than 38 special even if one don't hit vital organs, and therefore can stop the danger more easily. What do you think of that argument?

And that is why, in addition to a 357 loaded with 38 Special ammo, I also keep a 20 ga pump handy. If there is an intruder in the bedroom the revolver is handy. If I have to investigate a noise I'm taking the pump. FYI I live in the country where the noise I'm investigating has almost always been a raccoon or opossum getting into something it shouldn't. #3 buck has been enough so far and based on the effect it #3 buck had on the stray dog foolish enough to charge me I think it's enough for my needs.

 

[gmborkovic]

Being an old farm boy, the M&P 38SPL. reminds me of my ole Fordson
tractor. Clean gas, hot battery and air. It never failed to start. I found it under a snow drift one winter. Little choke and some nice talk, she started right up. They made good stuff back then.

 

[marlin58]

You bet.. A. 22 will WORK... especially if the attacker brings a knife to the gunfight

 

[WR Moore]

The .38 has better bullets, and more variety to choose from.
Works better with marginal bullets than 9mm.

The 9 mm always had a design edge on the .357 diameter bullets because of the specific and limited velocity range of the 9x19 cartridge. It was easy for designers to produce expanding bullets that actually worked in that limited range.

OTOH, there's an issue (or at least there used to be) with .357 diameter bullets. If made to expand and remain intact at .357 velocities, their expansion at .38 Spl velocities can be marginal. Now, designs have improved somewhat and a few companies actually make ammunition designed specifically for the .38, Speer's short barrel load being a good example. But the "better bullets" comment isn't universally true.

 

[LostintheOzone]

Even a .22 will be adequate if you know how to use it.

A secret service agent went down for the count after being shot once by John Hinckley. He did a lot of damage with a .22.

 

[Der Verminator]

I would like to know your experts opinion on the matter. Do you think that an old 38 special S&W revolver, say from the 60s-70s or so (Model 10, 15, 67 and similar), is sufficient for home defense today in 2022? Or is outdated for that purpose?

I have learned that the police started using the more powerful 357 magnum, among other things, because newer cars became thicker and they needed more powerful ammunition to be able to shoot through cars to stop criminals and similar situations. And that civilians after marketing followed the police and started buying 357 magnum to a greater extent than 38 special.

But civilians who are not police and are not chasing criminals or have to shoot through thick cars and similar situations, would you say the 38 special is still a good option for home defense? Are they powerful enough for the common cases?

I'm thinking that lower recoil, being able to hit the target faster multiple times, and less risk of over-penetration and hurting innocents, seem like big advantages to using the 38 special. Also, don't be blinded by the flash in the middle of the night, and don't destroy ones hearing, with the thunderous bang of the 357 magnum indoors. And 38 special is cheaper ammunition, etc.

Whereas the advantage of the 357 is that it is more powerful and does more damage to the threat.

But is 357 overkill for civilians? Is it really necessary? If 38 special worked for the police to stop thousands of criminals in the past, then they should be sufficient as defensive weapons for ordinary civilians today in ordinary situations, or what do you think?

Perhaps there is also someone here who worked as a police officer at the time and has their own or others' experiences to confirm or deny regarding the 38 special as a home defense weapon?

Thanks.

You ask an excellent question.

Here's a good thing to keep in mind: Thugs are afraid of getting shot.

They do not want a gunfight. If they end up in a hospital the cops will be called to investigate......this will probably mean an arrest.

Thus one shot from any firearm of any caliber will send them running.......and keep in mind that there's a high probability that they will empty their guns in your direction to cover their retreat.

So when you fire that shot......make sure you're behind something substantial to avoid getting shot yourself.

Next: There may be a few who are willing to risk a gunfight (for whatever reason--drugs, insanity, utter stupidity, etc.).

This is rare, but it could happen.

In that case you need a weapon chosen with wisdom and logic.......one that, as you yourself said--has low recoil, will not deafen you or blind you but has sufficient (but moderate) power and magazine capacity.

I'd recommend a 9mm carbine such as the Ruger PC9 or something similar........along with a lot of research, practice and formal education. This is serious business.

Best of luck.......I think you're on the right track.

 

[snuffy19608]

I sleep quite well with a Model 10-6 loaded with 38+P at the bedside. Of course, I cheat and pair it with a Mossberg 500, but I have plenty of confidence in the wheelgun as well.

 

[steelslaver]

Unfortunately you can't ask all the dead people shot with 38 specials, I would bet you could fill plenty of good sized cemeteries with those killed just with the old round nosed lead bullets or the 38 specials older brother, the 38 S&W. Big guys, little guys, cops, robbers, men, women, good guys, bad guys, murderers and victims. It wasn't issued to police departments and military units for about 100 years for no reason.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

Only the hits count. We've gotten too hung up on this "zapped by lightning" notion of stopping power. I've seen plenty of videos where the perp is shot, screams, runs a few yards, then...I agree training should be based on a worst case scenario-"a 6'6" giant on PCP" as I heard a Jeet Kune Do instructor say-but the 38 Special is one of the most controllable rounds and allows for that critical follow up shot if No. 1 doesn't do the job.

 

[sigp220.45]

In 1971 an NYPD officer at the Central Park Zoo intervened to save a man who had decided to reach through the bars to pet a polar bear. The bear was not into it, and clamped down with intent to distribute. The cop fired two .38 RNL into the bear’s shoulder, killing it instantly.

If it will kill a polar bear, it will kill a crackhead.

Ways to avoid a home invasion:

Pay your drug bills promptly. If you are lucky enough to be fronted dope to sell, pay your supplier back as soon as the drugs are sold.

Do not have a woman in your home who is someone else’s wife or girlfriend, or who has an ex recently released from incarceration.

Have a big dog.

 

[Hello86]

Thank you all guys for many good answers.

What is the difference in practice, the damage to the enemy etc between 90 gr, 110 gr, 125gr, 135 gr, 158gr etc?

So many different grs, names etc confuse me as an amateur

 

[Mbrgr1]

If I shot.....

this thread with a 38 special, I'm convinced it would not die!

 

[Hello86]

Any rounded nose non expanding bullet is a poor choice, whether lead of FMJ. The round nose tends to part flesh and organs rather the cut and crush, leaving a minimal temporary or permanent wound channel. Round nose bullets will tumble in flesh if they decelerate sufficiently before passing through the target. They also tend to veer in flesh and organs.

A non expanding flat nose with a relatively sharp shoulder, like a wadcutter or semi wadcutter, cuts a whole through flesh and organs and penetration is straight and deep, creating a substantially larger temporary and permanent wound channel than a rounded nose bullet. If driven fast enough they have the potential for over penetration though.

An expanding bullet, properly matched for the velocity of the load, will cut and crush flesh and organs while creating a wider temporary and permanent wound channel that is sufficiently deep to reach vital organs from most angles. Because the expanded frontal area reduces penetration, the potential for over penetration is significantly reduced.

Thank you John Patrick. So, an expanding bullet, is the best then best for stopping the bad guy and best for minimize the risk of overpenetration and hitting innocents, and that is a hollow-point 38 special bullet if I understand it right?

I still have trouble believing +p gains one much. Load your revolver with standard-pressure ammunition, IMHO lead semi-wadcutters, practice with it, and be confident.

My carry gun and one of my home defense guns is a .38 special...with wadcutters no less!

Thank you both shil and jmace57. But wouldn't it be better with expandning bullets than wadcutters or standard-pressure ammunition, as John Patrick wrote, please see above?

 

[sigp220.45]

Don’t overthink it.

The least important aspect of this whole scenario is the type of projectile.

Anything can work, anything can fail.

 

[Hello86]

Yes, but ....... it's a bit more complicated than these caliber generalizations. Firearm weight and barrel length effect recoil, sound, flash and ballistic effects as much or more than ammo choice.

Apples to apples example. The same 158gr .357 round is a loud handful of recoil in my 2.5 inch 686, but an easy and quieter shoot from the 4 inch 686.

Taken to extremes, .357 from my 24 inch Rossi 92 lever rifle is far quieter and easier to shoot than any handgun I own. That's why it's my go-to for HD.

That aside. Under stress, I shoot my 9mm carry better than my revolvers, so that's my HD handgun. But, just in case, I keep the revolvers loaded with 125gr HP .357, because I shoot them well from my 686s and I believe it's the most effective for that task.





Sent from my motorola one 5G using Tapatalk

Thanks. Very interesting points. So a lever action rifle, say Rossi 92, or Winchester 1873 which I read shoots both 38 special and 357 magnum, is a better option for home defense, because of less noise and less flash. But the risk of over-penetration remains, however, and is getting bigger, isn't it? Longer barrel, gives more power?

Firing 357 magnum from a revolver does less damage and less risk of overpenetration than firing the same bullet from a longer barreled rifle, correct? The same if you shoot with a lever action rifle, with a 38 special bullet, it gets more power and does more damage with it, right?

I love those old lever action rifles though, maybe not good for apartment living, but if I move into a house, it should probably be a good self defense weapon I guess. But maybe have a lever action and shot 38 special could work? Hmm.

My two cents worth: in consideration of the type of round +P ammunition is sufficient for Home Defense and won't hurt the gun given you are firing 5 or 6 rounds not 600.

Secondly, if you have ever been in a shooting, the sound of the 357 vs 38 makes no difference - it is a proven fact that your senses shut down except those needed to survive.

I fired two 357 rounds at night and never heard them and did not have a ringing in my ears afterwards. Furthermore, as anyone who has served in combat can tell you the same thing, shooting without hearing protection is only an issue at the range, not in a scenario.

Certainly, learn the safeties involved in gun usage for home security and know your target and what is behind it. Does not matter if velocity of the round is high or not, can it hurt someone else in the home if you miss?

Like I mention, these are my two cents worth and not intended to insult or argue any position of anyone else.

Al

Good points, thank you.

Yes, the the neighbor from the other side of the door can be hurt if I miss, and it goes through his door or something like that.

Yes the 38 is sufficient. JMHO any handgun of any caliber is used only for cover to get you to your long gun. A long gun for home defense? Yes, I'm not clearing the house, garage, barn, what not. I'm getting my loved one in one place and defending that AO. I hate thieves, looters, home invaders, etal. but I will let trouble come to me and not go looking for it. YMMV

Thank you, good points. What long gun is that?

You ask an excellent question.

Here's a good thing to keep in mind: Thugs are afraid of getting shot.

They do not want a gunfight. If they end up in a hospital the cops will be called to investigate......this will probably mean an arrest.

Thus one shot from any firearm of any caliber will send them running.......and keep in mind that there's a high probability that they will empty their guns in your direction to cover their retreat.

So when you fire that shot......make sure you're behind something substantial to avoid getting shot yourself.

Next: There may be a few who are willing to risk a gunfight (for whatever reason--drugs, insanity, utter stupidity, etc.).

This is rare, but it could happen.

In that case you need a weapon chosen with wisdom and logic.......one that, as you yourself said--has low recoil, will not deafen you or blind you but has sufficient (but moderate) power and magazine capacity.

I'd recommend a 9mm carbine such as the Ruger PC9 or something similar........along with a lot of research, practice and formal education. This is serious business.

Best of luck.......I think you're on the right track.

Thank you Der Verminator, that is good points.

Ruger PC9 seems like a good gun for home defense, low recoil as you say, seems smooth, easy to shoot, lots of ammo capacity, I have read one can buy 30 round glock mags for it, also silencer, and guess ammo can be bought, hollow-point which does more damage to the attacker, but less risk of overpenetration etc. Seems to solve most problems and concerns.

The negative I see with it, unlike a revolver or a lever action rifle, is that it seems less reliable, with the magazines etc? See this for example: Ruger PC Carbine - YouTube

Same negatives with pistols, unlike revolvers, which makes me trust revolvers more for it's reliability.

Do you think a lever action rifle that can shoot both 38 special and 357 magnum, for that reason would be better as bigwheelzip above has, as his home defence gun? For example Winchester 1873. Low recoil in them, less noise as I understand it, pretty quick with follow up shots, and maybe more reliable than the Ruger?

I found this video, “Even though modern sporting rifles, like the AR15 are all the rage these days, you aren't giving up much, in terms of practical performance, if you choose to use a lever action rifle for self-defense.”: [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laGgH8p7XHU[/ame]

Negative is harder and longer to reload for sure. Otherwise, revolver rifles might also be an option, like those Rossi Circuit Judge rifles, although they have received a lot of criticism it seems, on the other hand. Hmm.

 

[Hello86]

Don’t overthink it.

The least important aspect of this whole scenario is the type of projectile.

Anything can work, anything can fail.

I've been told that a few times in my life, that I tend to overthink and overanalyze things and I assume it's right, but I want things to be as good as possible and avoid unnecessary mistakes