Will an old S&W 38 special revolver do for home defense?

[majick47]

Not sure a long barreled rifle/shotgun is the best primary weapon in the confines of an average size house against a violent intruder. For retention purposes a revolver/pistol seems like a better choice. Not to say a short barreled 12ga pump shotgun wouldn't work as a backup if all else failed to stop a violent intruder.

 

[AJ]

Not sure a long barreled rifle/shotgun is the best primary weapon in the confines of an average size house against a violent intruder. For retention purposes a revolver/pistol seems like a better choice. Not to say a short barreled 12ga pump shotgun wouldn't work as a backup if all else failed to stop a violent intruder.

To each their own. I have two handguns in the nightstand. First up is a Model 60 Ladysmith, Second up will be a Beretta 92F with an 18 shot mag. Third is an old Winchester Model 12 .12 ga. without a mag plug. Wife will be on cell phone calling 911 and hopefully the Deputy that lives next door will be coming to see what all the racket is about. Yes, he will be armed, probably with a Glock and an AR.

No, I will not be out searching in the house for intruders. Getting to old for such nonsense Get on the side of the bed away from the door and use it as cover. That way I can also cover the door while the little Lady is calling 911.

 

[SWFan27]

Anyway, in any case, I'm keen on a S&W model 15 or model 67. They look so incredibly nice, and I guess they're pure joy to shoot. But suppose it would be reasonable to try to get hold of one, as well as a rifle, PC9 or a lever action rifle. A handgun and a longer one would probably be enough, to be able to train and get really good at both.

When it comes to ammunition it would be nice and good to be able to shoot the same ammunition from the handgun as in the rifle as well I guess.

38 special in a S&W model 15/67 and 38 special in a Winchester Model 1866 or a model 1873.

Aesthetically, they also fit well together, pure beauties:

My next firearm purchase will most likely be a Henry Big Boy Classic rifle chambered in 357 Mag/38 Spl.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifdpZJ_G_y8&t=238s[/ame]

 

[John Patrick]

My next firearm purchase will most likely be a Henry Big Boy Classic rifle chambered in 357 Mag/38 Spl.

Henry Big Boy .357 magnum - YouTube

I impulsively bought a Rossi Model 94 in 38/357 that appeared at the LGS.

Haven’t zeroed it yet, but I’ll kill a deer with it this year!

Pretty rifle, handy at 16” of barrel. Relatively smooth, as far as I can tell with no experience with the type. Will shoot it this weekend or next.

 

[SmithNut]

Default Will an old S&W 38 special revolver do for home defense?

I've heard a chalk line in the front yard works great, but for me I'd go with the 38 Special.... just sayin'

 

[majick47]

Another asset of a big heavy all steel revolver is if it came to a trench warfare situation in the home a K or N frame would do considerable damage if used as a club, a compact Tupperware pistol not so much. Another tool in the box might be a 3-4 D cell Mag or Kell Lite.

 

[AJ]

I impulsively bought a Rossi Model 94 in 38/357 that appeared at the LGS.

Haven’t zeroed it yet, but I’ll kill a deer with it this year!

Pretty rifle, handy at 16” of barrel. Relatively smooth, as far as I can tell with no experience with the type. Will shoot it this weekend or next.

Would not want to use a lever gun in the house unless that was all I had. An AR platform or an M1 Carbine would be my first choice I do have a Pedersoli Colt Lightning in .45 Colt, this is a pump rifle and is pretty handy. Much quicker than a lever.

 

[John Patrick]

Would not want to use a lever gun in the house unless that was all I had. An AR platform or an M1 Carbine would be my first choice I do have a Pedersoli Colt Lightning in .45 Colt, this is a pump rifle and is pretty handy. Much quicker than a lever.

Thankfully, there aren’t many deer in my house!

Pretty rifle!

ETA: One advantage of an M1 Carbine is you still have an option after your 15 rounds are expended.

 

[Hello86]

Hello86,

Another advantage of a 38spl revolver is that a wide range of ammunition, from very mild through the Buffalo Bore +P is available so you can pick your power and recoil level.

Most cowboy action ammo is very mild, up from that is mild wadcutter target ammo, then typical standard pressure ammo, then other than BB +P and at the top is BB +P.

With a semi auto your choice of ammo that will cycle the action (without spring changes) is limited.

Thank you John Patrick.

Good to know.

So not as powerful 38 special ammunition for lever action guns, but isn't it completed with the longer barrel (bigger penetration), so that regular standard 38 ammunition, maybe gets the same effect through the longer barrel as +p ammunition through a revolver or similar? (maybe even wadcutter target ammo?) And that you can shoot the 357 magnum through them too, if you want? Also little recoil level.

So it does even out more or less, right?

 

[Hello86]

He's agreeing with your concept.

Yes I know, and I am agreeing with him

 

[Hello86]

My next firearm purchase will most likely be a Henry Big Boy Classic rifle chambered in 357 Mag/38 Spl.

Henry Big Boy .357 magnum - YouTube

Yes, that is a nice one.

One advantage for it is that it is made in the USA from American materials by American workers, I like that. It is also stylish and reminiscent of traditional lever action rifles from the cowboy era I understand. Disadvantage that they did not make a copy of Winchester's 1866, and 1873.

However, they have a copy of Henry's original 1860. Winchester no longer sells their 1866, but 1873, but unfortunately they are made in Japan, but I think the wood is of American walnut. 1860, 1866 and 1873 are also available as copies made by the Italian company Uberti. I am myself keen on a lever action, but would prefer it to be made in the USA like Henry's rifle, but be a copy of the original and historical, 1866 and or 1873.

 

[Hello86]

Would not want to use a lever gun in the house unless that was all I had. An AR platform or an M1 Carbine would be my first choice I do have a Pedersoli Colt Lightning in .45 Colt, this is a pump rifle and is pretty handy. Much quicker than a lever.

Wow, thanks, never heard of a gun like that.

I see it here, seems to be a nice gun: [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmf9ypDeGsI[/ame]

I wonder which is more reliable, a pump like that 45 colt (or 357/38) or a liver action with the same ammo?

It is both in 45 colt and 357 magnum I see, and is a copy, an "exact replica" of the 1884 original, cool: 1884 LIGHTNING RIFLE & CARBINE | Uberti Replicas | Top quality firearms replicas from 1959

 

[WR Moore]

So not as powerful 38 special ammunition for lever action guns, but isn't it completed with the longer barrel (bigger penetration), so that regular standard 38 ammunition, maybe gets the same effect through the longer barrel as +p ammunition through a revolver or similar? (maybe even wadcutter target ammo?) And that you can shoot the 357 magnum through them too, if you want? Also little recoil level.

So it does even out more or less, right?

OK, you've got the basic idea, longer barrel = more velocity, but depending upon many factors*, the velocity difference might not be significant. The only way you'd know for sure is to chronograph the various loads out of your rifle. In fact, I think I read an article recently where someone actually did this. I doubt the wadcutter load would gain any velocity, it might actually lose some**. Perhaps someone here on the board might do some velocity tests and let us know.

Frankly, once you reach the basic .38 Spl power floor, the most important thing isn't power, velocity, bullet design, bullet diameter or weight, it's WHERE YOU PUT THE BULLET.

While looking at reproductions of the original Henry lever action please be aware of one glaring fault in the design: the full length slot in the ammunition tube for the follower. This can allow debris to enter the magazine and cause problems. You want an ammunition tube that doesn't have that slot.

* The powder used by the manufacturer probably being the major factor. BTW, the various manufacturers may change powders in different lots (batches) of the same load depending upon what's on hand when they make that particular lot.

**.22 lr rimfire cartridges reach their maximum velocity in a 19 inch barrel. They actually lose velocity in the much longer barrels of target rifles used in formal competition.

 

[Hello86]

OK, you've got the basic idea, longer barrel = more velocity, but depending upon many factors*, the velocity difference might not be significant. The only way you'd know for sure is to chronograph the various loads out of your rifle. In fact, I think I read an article recently where someone actually did this. I doubt the wadcutter load would gain any velocity, it might actually lose some**. Perhaps someone here on the board might do some velocity tests and let us know.

Frankly, once you reach the basic .38 Spl power floor, the most important thing isn't power, velocity, bullet design, bullet diameter or weight, it's WHERE YOU PUT THE BULLET.

While looking at reproductions of the original Henry lever action please be aware of one glaring fault in the design: the full length slot in the ammunition tube for the follower. This can allow debris to enter the magazine and cause problems. You want an ammunition tube that doesn't have that slot.

* The powder used by the manufacturer probably being the major factor. BTW, the various manufacturers may change powders in different lots (batches) of the same load depending upon what's on hand when they make that particular lot.

**.22 lr rimfire cartridges reach their maximum velocity in a 19 inch barrel. They actually lose velocity in the much longer barrels of target rifles used in formal competition.

Thanks for that info, it cleared some things up. Excuse my slowness to understand correctly sometimes

Good advice regarding 1860 Henry. Guess 1866 and 1873 are better options. Would be good to get hold of, Winchesters 1866 and 1873, the ones made in the USA.

 

[John Patrick]

Wadcutter target ammo - light recoil, no expansion, adequate penetration. Imo, only a reasonable choice for very light alloy J frames, which can weigh about 1/3 of your 4” Model 10 weighs, or for those very recoil sensitive.

Imo, one should have both a handy long gun and a bedside handgun for home protection. And, of course, the owner should become proficient with both. But the long gun, as effective as it is, won’t be available when your bedroom window breaks or you wake to the creak of the bedroom door opening. So, if you must choose just one, I think the handgun is the better choice.

As for ammo choices, the Buffalo Bore standard pressure 158gr SWCHP-GC would be fine out of both a Model 10 and a Model 1892 (lever action,) if it feeds in the lever action. I have read some accounts of 357 lever actions not reliably feeding the shorter 38 ammo.

Here’s a video testing the BB standard pressure vs the +P version of the load in ballistic gel. Remember that Buffalo Bore’s 158gr SWCHP-GC loads are just premium versions of the proven so called “FBI Load.” And BB uses a very soft bullet to ensure expansion at snubby velocities, something the FBI load is/was only mediocre at. And BB uses a gas check on the very soft bullet to ameliorate barrel leading.: [ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KJz3ba-l2sk[/ame]

And here’s a link to some excellent defensive ammo testing by Lucky Gunner. You’ll see some excellent results and some not acceptable results, with the non premium FBI loads spanng both, iirc. : https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revolver-ballistics-test/

Since you already have the Model 10, I’d suggest getting some mild cowboy action or wadcutter ammo and learning how to use it. And that should be a lot of fun. Then get familiar with the recoil of standard pressure ammo and work your way to +P ammo so you know what the recoil is like even if you don’t choose to use +P ammo.

Imo, the best home defense long gun is a 12ga or 20ga pump shotgun. If over penetration is a concern than I would suggest Hornaday’s #4 buckshot predator load. It uses a licensed version of Federal’s fantastic Flight Control wad. #4 buckshot is plenty adequate for typical apartment to mid size home defense, with effectiveness demonstrated to beyond 20yds and substantially less over penetration potential than 00 buckshot. Not a lot of homes provide a 60’ shot opportunity.

 

[Hello86]

Wadcutter target ammo - light recoil, no expansion, adequate penetration. Imo, only a reasonable choice for very light alloy J frames, which can weigh about 1/3 of your 4” Model 10 weighs, or for those very recoil sensitive.

Imo, one should have both a handy long gun and a bedside handgun for home protection. And, of course, the owner should become proficient with both. But the long gun, as effective as it is, won’t be available when your bedroom window breaks or you wake to the creak of the bedroom door opening. So, if you must choose just one, I think the handgun is the better choice.

As for ammo choices, the Buffalo Bore standard pressure 158gr SWCHP-GC would be fine out of both a Model 10 and a Model 1892 (lever action,) if it feeds in the lever action. I have read some accounts of 357 lever actions not reliably feeding the shorter 38 ammo.

Here’s a video testing the BB standard pressure vs the +P version of the load in ballistic gel. Remember that Buffalo Bore’s 158gr SWCHP-GC loads are just premium versions of the proven so called “FBI Load.” And BB uses a very soft bullet to ensure expansion at snubby velocities, something the FBI load is/was only mediocre at. And BB uses a gas check on the very soft bullet to ameliorate barrel leading.: 💣.38 Special - Buffalo Bore "FBI Load" Ballistic Gel Test (.38+P VS .38 Standard Pressure) - YouTube

And here’s a link to some excellent defensive ammo testing by Lucky Gunner. You’ll see some excellent results and some not acceptable results, with the non premium FBI loads spanng both, iirc. : https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revolver-ballistics-test/

Since you already have the Model 10, I’d suggest getting some mild cowboy action or wadcutter ammo and learning how to use it. And that should be a lot of fun. Then get familiar with the recoil of standard pressure ammo and work your way to +P ammo so you know what the recoil is like even if you don’t choose to use +P ammo.

Imo, the best home defense long gun is a 12ga or 20ga pump shotgun. If over penetration is a concern than I would suggest Hornaday’s #4 buckshot predator load. It uses a licensed version of Federal’s fantastic Flight Control wad. #4 buckshot is plenty adequate for typical apartment to mid size home defense, with effectiveness demonstrated to beyond 20yds and substantially less over penetration potential than 00 buckshot. Not a lot of homes provide a 60’ shot opportunity.

Interesting, thanks for the info, will watch the video and read the article. Also, thanks for the shotgun and ammo recommendation. But when it comes to pump, is a break-open shotgun more reliable? I have previously read many say that they are more reliable than the pump guns, as they can quite often jam. Is that true?

 

[AJ]

Wow, thanks, never heard of a gun like that.

I see it here, seems to be a nice gun: Pedersoli Lightning Pump Action Rifle Woods Walk - YouTube

I wonder which is more reliable, a pump like that 45 colt (or 357/38) or a liver action with the same ammo?

It is both in 45 colt and 357 magnum I see, and is a copy, an "exact replica" of the 1884 original, cool: 1884 LIGHTNING RIFLE & CARBINE | Uberti Replicas | Top quality firearms replicas from 1959

Much faster to work the action. No need to take your eyes off the target or the rifle off your shoulder to reload. I prefer the pump to a lever gun. That is blasphemy isn't it? Don't know if they still make them. The Pedersoli is fairly pricey ($1800.00).

 

[AJ]

Imo, the best home defense long gun is a 12ga or 20ga pump shotgun. If over penetration is a concern than I would suggest Hornaday’s #4 buckshot predator load. It uses a licensed version of Federal’s fantastic Flight Control wad. #4 buckshot is plenty adequate for typical apartment to mid size home defense, with effectiveness demonstrated to beyond 20yds and substantially less over penetration potential than 00 buckshot. Not a lot of homes provide a 60’ shot opportunity.

You mean like this one? We trained with these for house clearing many moons ago. Oh yes, it will even accept a bayonet. This is a USMC M870 Mk 1 in .12 ga. with a 21 inch barrel and rifle sights and an 8 shot magazine and the all important bayonet lug. Uses the same bayonet as an M16.

Here is one that just sold at auction. Lot Detail - (C) REMINGTON MODEL 870 WINGMASTER TRENCH GUN SLIDE ACTION SHOTGUN. Mine was cobbled together from pieces and parts found at gun shows over 30 years ago. I used it to teach a "Combat Shotgun Course" to the Navy at NS Long Beach.

 

[Hello86]

Much faster to work the action. No need to take your eyes off the target or the rifle off your shoulder to reload. I prefer the pump to a lever gun. That is blasphemy isn't it? Don't know if they still make them. The Pedersoli is fairly pricey ($1800.00).

Aha, I see, thanks. Well I guess it is blasphemy

 

[Hello86]

This is three videos on the subject that I found interesting, from The Gun Guy Tv, and he thinks that old S&W 38 special revolvers are good for home defence:

"Is the Smith and Wesson Model 10 good for self defense": [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19ZFbX7GWks[/ame]

"Are Revolvers Good For Home Defense & Concealed Carry?": [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FwKUUymMWU[/ame]

Also he thinks cheap old, break-open shotguns can be good for self-defense too, speaking of shotguns:

“Cheap Shotguns For Home Defense”: [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvTidIxaEm8[/ame]