460 XVR Alaska Protection

[dwever]

I have been in Alaska for the last five years. I first posted here that I was looking at a 460 for bear protection, an 8 3/8" barreled one. That was too long to be practical, and today I bought a 460 with a 3.5" barrel. I have taken grizzly and moose. While the guy pictured was just over 750 lbs., griz routinely go over 1,000 lbs. Thing is, my side-arm up here has been a 10mm which is generally inadequate. So I bought the Performance Center 460 XVR and a chest draw holster for adequate firepower. Loaded it is a 4 lbs. revolver, but because the XVR is so well balanced, it doesn't feel awkward.

This is not for hunting, for that I now use a .375 H&H; the revolver is for protection while hunting, six wheeling, whatever in bear country. So ultimately I hope I wasted the $2K because it was never needed, but if I do, well I'll have it. Last May I was on an Alaskan island known as Admiralty Island: one million acres with 1,600 brown bears. This would of been easier to carry than the 12 Gauge that was my constant companions as we saw bear daily.

I bought 300 grain heavy loaded Buffalo Bore. A lighter 200 gr. bullet can reach 2250 fps at the muzzle and still be zooming along at 1715 fps when it's 100 yards downrange. That's almost twice the speed of sound at the muzzle, which is approaching Ludicrous Speed from a handgun. Of course with 3.5" barrel, you'll need to reduce those fps some.

The .460 XVR is packing over 2,500 ft. lbs. of energy; then when loaded with .454 Casull you're still getting 1400 - 1600 ft. lbs. at the barrel; then with .45 Long Colt self defense you essentially have a light 44 Magnum with 600 - 1,100 ft. lbs.

You can't see it, but people next to you can actually see a donut-shaped pressure wave blowing out of the muzzle. Yikes.

SKU 170350
PERFORMANCE CENTER Model 460XVR™
460 S&W Magnum
Capacity 5
Length 10
Front Sight HI VIZ® Fiber Optic Green
Rear Sight Adjustable
Action Single/Double Action
Weight 58.8 oz.

Ammo Shown
460 XVR 300 Grain 1920FPS 2455 ft. lbs.
454 Casull 300 Grain 1650 FPS 1813 ft. lbs.
45 Colt +P 300 Grain 1300 FPS 1100 ft. lbs.

 

[ruggyh]

I am a big 460 fan and hunt with them extensively. You will like revolver.

Your ammo choices are questionable though, if in fact you are only going to use it for protection only. Not that they will be fatal if placed, well but the report will be hearing damaging. I know most will say hear loss is better than the mauling but you can load a 340 grain hardcast WFN to 1200 fps and it will be equally fatal without the damaging report and will be easier to get a second round off if possible.

See your thread from March of last year

 

[dwever]

I like to be in hearing enhancing electronic plugs anyway.

 

[Imissedagain]

Some decades ago, when I asked the Chief of Police in
Walla Walla, who stands guard while we fish for Salmon,
he replied, " don't you carry a GUN boy?"

I replied that it's a handloaded BlackHawk 45 Colt but would be tough to shoot with my left hand if no time to drop the rod/reel.
Someday someone will make a real Bear revolver.... was my reply.

The 2.75" would be nice but the 3.5" is fantastic.
It's about the same length as our 629/4".

 

[Mark8]

... then with .45 Long Colt self defense you essentially have a +P+ .44 Magnum with 600 - 1,100 ft. lbs.

1,100 ft⋅lbf is not +P+ .44 Remington Magnum, it's Sunday afternoon picknick .44 Remington Magnum. .44 Remington Magnum just doesn't get the respect it deserves ...

 

[cowboy4evr]

I'll 2nd that . I truly do have a strong attachment to the 44 magnum . It was the first revolver I ever shot when I was 10 yrs old . That started a long love affair . Regards Paul

 

[dwever]

45 Colt +P 300 Grain 1300 FPS 1100 ft. lbs. - Easy to shoot, mild recoil

454 Casull 300 Grain 1650 FPS 1813 ft. lbs. - Uncomfortable, but not as bad as I thought.

460 XVR 300 Grain 1920FPS 2455 ft. lbs. - One shot was enough. Ouch. Went back out with gloves. Massive report. No fireball.

 

[Rpg]

45 Colt +P 300 Grain 1300 FPS 1100 ft. lbs. - Easy to shoot, mild recoil

454 Casull 300 Grain 1650 FPS 1813 ft. lbs. - Uncomfortable, but not as bad as I thought.

460 XVR 300 Grain 1920FPS 2455 ft. lbs. - One shot was enough. Ouch. Massive report. No fireball.

Looks like the 45 Colt is the best choice since it will be easier to master than the other two. Being able to hit quickly, accurately and have quick follow up shots is what you want.

Based on your description of the Casull as uncomfortable, it isn't a great candidate for bear defense. Uncomfortable guns don't lend themselves to speed, accuracy and quick follow up. Uncomfortable guns don't encourage enough practice to develop the skills necessary to rely on the Casull.

Your description of the 460 as "one shot was enough. Ouch. Massive report." tells me all I need to know about the 460's suitability for bear defense: it's the least suitable of all three.

It may be suitable to hunt with: you don't need to be quick, you can choose your position, put on your heavy glove and your double ear protection, brace your pistol and settle in for your shot. Any follow up shots that may be necessary won't require speed. You're in no immediate danger

 

[__steve__]

If you enjoy shooting x frame revolvers for fun, they probably would be the best choice for a 700lb bear in pursuit, and not an overkill by any stretch. I wouldn't even consider 640 gr at 1200 fps in the half inch version too much.

 

[dwever]

The ballistics are not there for the 45 Colt to be adequate for Alaskan Grizzly. The 454 heavily loaded is getting there ish. Mature Alaskan males can weigh North of 1,000 lbs.; this year there was a 1400 pounder on the Kenai Peninsula. Even the smaller young Alaskan male in Post #1 was 750 lbs. 338 Win. Mag. is the starting rifle caliber here for large bear; I personally hunt with a .375 H&H for stopping power and for an ethical kill. I was on a hunt last September where a guy from Georgia with a 7 mm magnum took three shots to finish although the first one was well placed. I had my 375 up the entire time loaded with Federal SledgeHammer in case I had to send a bus to run the thing over. It was a troubling kill for me.

Accuracy with the big revolver is there if needed but is not likely to be an issue, because if you have your revolver out and fire you are likely dealing with a charge, because otherwise in a non-hunting Alaska bear encounter you are simply walking slowly away backwards if the bear is not approaching and you're trying to look as big as possible while you saturate the place with your absence. Many Alaskans can talk about being charged, even when the bear uses an arc when they charge, everyone with that experience talks about how the bear got to them with blinding speed. Many are armed but simply could not bring the weapon to bare quickly enough. Fortunately many charges are false; the bear either stops short particularly when it is a sow with young, or it runs right past without ever touching the person. I've also heard that when a big bear stops during a false charge, the big hide keeps coming forward from the inertia, and just about swallows the bear's face for just a quick second!

In any event my revolver will be loaded with the 300-360 grain Buffalo Bore 460XVR.

Later this afternoon with leather gloves on I put three 460s fairly tightly through a paper plate at 20 yards admittedly in single action (Pulling the hammer back in single action gives plenty of room for a gloved index finger). But that is beside the point. Many Alaskan grizzly charges have people unable to defend themselves with anything because the grizzly moves too fast. The 460 XVR was purchased in order to be snatched out of my chest holster in a seconds notice, no safety, and immediately send a landslide of energy exiting the barrel if necessary. And if it is close range, I am emptying the 4 remaining in the cylinder in double action. And if the bear is on me I'm continuing to fire if I can. But not 45 Colt. After I dropped $1900 for the PC revolver (PC for super smooth DA) I dropped another $600ish on heavy 460 ammo as it works out to almost $4.00 per cartridge. Yes the heavy loaded buffalo bore 460 XVR hurts. But in an attack I will not feel it. I just hope I get my hearing back.

An uncomfortable number of bear attacks are not ended by the person defending themself. They are ended because a buddy shot the bear off of him.

 

[__steve__]

If I lived out there and was in the woods, my phone would be in my pocket because my 3.5" X-frame revolver would be in my hand. If I saw a bear I would be in the ready position walking backwards. I feel safer swimming in the open ocean than on land in predator territory unprepared.

 

[dwever]

If I lived out there and was in the woods, my phone would be in my pocket because my 3.5" X-frame revolver would be in my hand. If I saw a bear I would be in the ready position walking backwards. I feel safer swimming in the open ocean than on land in predator territory unprepared.

My German Shepherds let me know what is going on long before I see it. If I am unlocking the gate at night I let them out of the truck first.

 

[Imissedagain]

20 or more feet or below the Ocean's surface, in addition to the Cardinal headings, you need to be aware of below and above.

Didn't Hemingway write,
"Tiger Sharks make little noise and where are my legs?"

 

[Imissedagain]

I like a high grip which the OEMs did not allow for me.
These do with gloves, as I've stated in threads, and help control rotation as well as DA/SA without the hand shift the OEMs required and more wood in the necessary places to fit my hand's contours.

Waiting for the taller sight to arrive, hopefully Tuesday, so I don't have to aim low to hit the targets center, and get to the range later this week.
How my hands feel during and after lotsa various loads with the 3.5" and 8.375" will be interesting.
Will modify as necessary as I roughed out a few.

Will load a bunch so the Smith and rest of the staff can try it as well.
They rent a 500 to use under supervision.
Will give the Smith a loaner of this one and eventually the RogueWave, in green paint in this pic as I color it to keep track of the carving as I make small changes, so they can give them a proper evaluation.
The RogueWave is made for bare hand and thin racquetball type gloves.

Modified my old Marlin manual carver and will see if the OEM reverse carving attachment will work safely as I have some grip projects that need that.

Hopefully I'll fit some to the 629 when in Colorado later this year.

Plenty of bullets, powder, brass but less than 3K of primers for the 460/458.

 

[jag1954]

Well, I'm comfortable with any one of these X-Frames when I'm deep in the woods.

 

[BW460]

I have the 5" 460 XVR and love it. A couple things to consider. As mentioned, firing just one of the heavy 454 or 460 mag rounds without hearing protection will do permanent hearing damage. I handle the recoil well but it is stout and may make it difficult to get back on target for a follow up shot.

 

[Bill Lear]

To my understanding shooting a single bear in Alaska draws the immediate attention of the State, yet your comment is structured as if you've shot multiple bears with a 10mm that the bears somehow "scoffed at," versus taking a 200 grain slug to the brain case and collapsing.

I find it incredible that ANY bear would "laugh off" a hit from the 10mm when properly placed, or any potent caliber. Just sayin'.

Unfortunately a lot of "tall tales" make their way onto the internet which are then taken up by every dweeb and newbie on the planet as the word of god, when in fact it's just the word of BS.

While the S&W .460 is adequate for bear disposal, the 500 is the FAR better choice. If one has tried the 10mm and found it wanting (one wonders exactly what circumstance that was), then the .500 magnum is THE penultimate caliber for dealing with out-of-control, aggressive bears!

Either the .460 or .500 in short barrel versions can deliver approximately 2,000 foot-pounds of energy which is more than enough to cancel a bear's ticket! There isn't a bear on planet Earth that can absorb a one-ounce slug to the cranium that completely SHATTERS the skull. Well, maybe on the internet, but not in real life.

 

[dwever]

To my understanding shooting a single bear in Alaska draws the immediate attention of the State, yet your comment is structured as if you've shot multiple bears with a 10mm that the bears somehow "scoffed at," versus taking a 200 grain slug to the brain case and collapsing.

Unless you disclose, at 2.5 times the size of Texas, the State of Alaska would almost never be aware unless you're in a public campground. But if you tell them as you should by law, you have to submit a Defense of Life or Property Report Form as well as turning over the bear's hide and skull. Alaskans can take grizzlies with the proper license, tag, season, and areas. Non-Alaskans need a registered guide in most cases.

I've never shot a bear with a 10mm. The bear in the pic was harvested with a rifle in a remote area and reported to the State in accordance with hunting laws. I wouldn't want to try a 10mm in a bear defense situation as the caliber is lacking for that purpose. And that was my only point. 10mm Heavy Buffalo Bore is 607 ft. lbs. at the muzzle (Item 21DG 190/20), the Buffalo Bore Heavy 460 I use is 2,455 ft. lbs., or slightly over 400% of the 10mm's kinetic energy. Shot placement is not really going to be possible w/a charging grizzly. 10mm and 460 pictured.

The 500 is not a "far better" choice. While the 500 generates more kinetic energy than the .460 at all ranges, the two are close enough in knock-down power for bear defense at close range it is not a factor. As you say at 2,000 ft. lbs., that is "more than enough to cancel a bear's ticket."

What does matter is the 460 has significantly less recoil, some reviews say 33% less (e.g. Chuck Hawks). With high powered loads, the .460 kicks over three times as hard as a full power .44 Magnum and the .500 kicks over four times are hard as a .44 Magnum. My own Buffalo Bore Heavy factory load is 300 grain with roughly 2,300 ft. lbs. at the barrel in a 3.5" barrel and 2,455 ft. lbs in the longer test barrel. It is punishing but accurate to shoot. I practice DA at 15 yards and SA at 25. Sore wrist a couple times.

If you can handle a big-bore revolver with heavy loads, they do offer profoundly more on-impact authority over any other handgun. If you can't, opt for increased accuracy and rapid-fire capability with a 10mm alternative.

And lastly, a firearm is my second line of defense. Bear spray is more effective, according to a study of 83 encounters from 1985 and 2006 that was published in the Journal of Wildlife Management. "Of all persons carrying sprays, 98% were uninjured by bears in close-range encounters," the review states.

A study of 269 incidents involving firearms and bears in Alaska between 1883 and 2009 showed that bears were killed in 61 percent of the incidents. "Although firearms have failed to protect some users, they are the only deterrent that can lethally stop an aggressive bear, reads the article "Efficacy of Firearms for Bear Deterrence in Alaska" that the Journal of Wildlife Management also published.

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service compared the two methods of defense in a paper "Bear Spray vs. Bullets. Which offers better protection?". "Based on [USFWS law enforcement] investigations of human-bear encounters since 1992, persons encountering grizzlies and defending themselves with firearms suffer injury about 50 [percent] of the time," the report reads. "During the same period, persons defending themselves with pepper spray escaped injury most of the time, and those that were injured experienced shorter duration attacks and less severe injuries."

Did you see the news on the large pile of bear scat found outside Anchorage? It contained gold teeth, a 10mm Glock, and an empty magazine in it. No need to call BS. It's tongue-in-cheek to make a point.

 

[HamHands]

The ballistics are not there for the 45 Colt to be adequate for Alaskan Grizzly. The 454 heavily loaded is getting there ish. Mature Alaskan males can weigh North of 1,000 lbs.; this year there was a 1400 pounder on the Kenai Peninsula. Even the smaller young Alaskan male in Post #1 was 750 lbs. 338 Win. Mag. is the starting rifle caliber here for large bear; I personally hunt with a .375 H&H for stopping power and for an ethical kill. I was on a hunt last September where a guy from Georgia with a 7 mm magnum took three shots to finish although the first one was well placed. I had my 375 up the entire time loaded with Federal SledgeHammer in case I had to send a bus to run the thing over. It was a troubling kill for me.

Accuracy with the big revolver is there if needed but is not likely to be an issue, because if you have your revolver out and fire you are likely dealing with a charge, because otherwise in a non-hunting Alaska bear encounter you are simply walking slowly away backwards if the bear is not approaching and you're trying to look as big as possible while you saturate the place with your absence. Many Alaskans can talk about being charged, even when the bear uses an arc when they charge, everyone with that experience talks about how the bear got to them with blinding speed. Many are armed but simply could not bring the weapon to bare quickly enough. Fortunately many charges are false; the bear either stops short particularly when it is a sow with young, or it runs right past without ever touching the person. I've also heard that when a big bear stops during a false charge, the big hide keeps coming forward from the inertia, and just about swallows the bear's face for just a quick second!

In any event my revolver will be loaded with the 300-360 grain Buffalo Bore 460XVR.

Later this afternoon with leather gloves on I put three 460s fairly tightly through a paper plate at 20 yards admittedly in single action (Pulling the hammer back in single action gives plenty of room for a gloved index finger). But that is beside the point. Many Alaskan grizzly charges have people unable to defend themselves with anything because the grizzly moves too fast. The 460 XVR was purchased in order to be snatched out of my chest holster in a seconds notice, no safety, and immediately send a landslide of energy exiting the barrel if necessary. And if it is close range, I am emptying the 4 remaining in the cylinder in double action. And if the bear is on me I'm continuing to fire if I can. But not 45 Colt. After I dropped $1900 for the PC revolver (PC for super smooth DA) I dropped another $600ish on heavy 460 ammo as it works out to almost $4.00 per cartridge. Yes the heavy loaded buffalo bore 460 XVR hurts. But in an attack I will not feel it. I just hope I get my hearing back.

An uncomfortable number of bear attacks are not ended by the person defending themself. They are ended because a buddy shot the bear off of him.

You are going to love that Rig... Compact, quick to draw, light and balanced... The .454Casule Heavy Hard Cast from BB would be my go-to if I were you...

True post... Most can/will only get off 1 to 2 shots maximum at a charging bear because 30+mph comes at you fast. Cool to hear about the false charge pelt roll I can only imagine. And yes, lots of people that survive brownie attacks are shot off of them by a buddy... Most of the reports I read several years ago of such were with the venerable .44Magnum from what I remember.

The 3" barreled Smith n' Wesson .44Mag I carry is quite comfortable to Wood's pack and lays down 305gr Hard Cast Kieth's with (Medium-Heavy) recoil (at about as comfortable as a 1325fps rated pill of that weight projectile is going to ever be) & with authority... Plus she's fast on target and put into fast action with the smooth DA trigger. Same pills out of my deer rifle the Ruger M44 Carbine w/18.5" barrel run 1800fps and well over 2K ft-lbs of energy at muzzle. That pill in that Carbine would put even a Sasquatch's "D" in the Dirt for sure!

I love wearing my Howard Leight electronic muffs in the woods for almost superhuman hearing, ear warmth, and hearing protection so that is a good idea too.

Anyways, thanks for sharing and stay safe... always have a Buddy or Two with you on islands that 1600 Brownies Co-Habituate upon for sure!

 

[__steve__]

Was trying to visualize a good way to practice stopping a charging griz. Something like a tire chalked on a ramped platform and a long rope pulleyed 90° so that a pull (in a safe location from fire) would release the tire rolling at you with the Xframe holstered.