45 Colt

[jdlii]

Speaking of 45 Colt, this one went to the range yesterday. Usually, I start with a .22 LR and had my Mod. 18 with me but, I pulled the 25-5 out of the bag first.

All shooting was done from the standing position with a two hand hold at 15 and 20 yards. The first target, upper left, was with Berry's plated 250 grain bullets over an appropriate load of Unique. The second target was a mix of Berry's bullets and 250 grain Leadhead, 250 grain SWC over 2400.

The Mod. 25 is a pleasure to shoot and the accuracy does not disappoint.

 

[alwslate]

Shooting standing up with a two hand hold shooting groups that look more like patterns at relativity close range says nothing about the accuracy of a gun. Accuracy is group size, not patterns that prove impact is close to sight picture.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Shooting standing up with a two hand hold shooting groups that look more like patterns at relativity close range says nothing about the accuracy of a gun. Accuracy is group size, not patterns that prove impact is close to sight picture.

Are you saying he should have used a Ransom Rest? Instead of happily shooting his Smith?

 

[StrawHat]

Shooting standing up with a two hand hold shooting groups that look more like patterns at relativity close range says nothing about the accuracy of a gun. Accuracy is group size, not patterns that prove impact is close to sight picture.

Yes, I agree with you, but, offhand shooting takes practice. I encourage the OP to continue shooting offhand at those and longer distances. You will see improvement each outing. And when you can not make it to the range, dryfire. Proper dryfire involves an empty revolver and a blank wall. Aim and squeeze. If you see the sights move, that is not correct. Concentrate of front sight, breathe and squeeze. Soon it will be second nature to dry fire and not have the sights move. If the sights move, you have missed your aim point. Don’t worry about targets, just a blank wall. Concentrate on that front sight, breathe and squeeze. You don’t need gimmicks, balancing a coin, watching a laser dot, etc. Just concentrate on the front sight, breathe and squeeze. You will see results.

Kevin

 

[Cdog]

If I read the post correctly, one of those targets was the result of shooting a dukes mixture of projectiles and powder doses.

I interpreted the post as, One group of a single load. The other as a display of a lot of different loads shot at one target.

 

[Cdog]

I'm a huge fan of big bore revolvers. The traditional pressure .45 Colt round is a pleasure to shoot from every type of firearm I've used it in. I once had a very nice H&R premium wood single shot carbine I wish I'd held on to.

Simply an often overlooked gem of the shooting community.

 

[alwslate]

Are you saying he should have used a Ransom Rest? Instead of happily shooting his Smith?

Did I say Ransom rest? Don't mis quote me and then respond as if that's what I said. To check the accuracy of a gun or a given load the gun must be fired from a bench rest single action. Everyone knows that. Otherwise you are testing yourself instead of the gun.

 

[StrawHat]

Did I say Ransom rest? Don't mis quote me and then respond as if that's what I said. To check the accuracy of a gun or a given load the gun must be fired from a bench rest single action. Everyone knows that. Otherwise you are testing yourself instead of the gun.

Why single action? My revolvers, and I, are much more accurate double action.

Just saying.

Kevin

 

[STORMINORMAN]

I guess I probably miss the distinction? Nice work, jdlii, BTW!

When I go to the range it is going to be a "test" of both the firearm and myself (with my reloads thrown in most of the time as well)... I'll batten down the firearm if I'm trying to adjust the sights or a scope, but otherwise "offhand" is the usual format.

Not that I won't use a rest if available, but what actual "fun" is there in shooting single action from a Ransom Rest: might as well be watching a video...?

Cheers!

P.S. I do wish I had one with all the proper inserts for load development, though...

 

[rockquarry]

I guess I probably miss the distinction? Nice work, jdlii, BTW!

When I go to the range it is going to be a "test" of both the firearm and myself (with my reloads thrown in most of the time as well)... I'll batten down the firearm if I'm trying to adjust the sights or a scope, but otherwise "offhand" is the usual format.

Not that I won't use a rest if available, but what actual "fun" is there in shooting single action from a Ransom Rest: might as well be watching a video...?

Cheers!

P.S. I do wish I had one with all the proper inserts for load development, though...

I had a Ransom Rest with windage base years ago and eventually sold it. One who has developed good benchrest technique can do as well at 25 yards with a good benchrest setup as the Ransom will do at 50. This is likely adequate accuracy testing for most of us. But, we get tired and fatigue will show on the target. Not so with the Ransom.

 

[mikld]

I reread the OP. It sounds like, to me, to be a "report" of a fun range trip and not an accuracy test/assessment of gun and ammo. All my handguns are capable of better accuracy than what I can deliver, but burnin' powder, informal target shooting is one reason I reload. (don't know if I reload to shoot, or shoot to reload)...

 

[STORMINORMAN]

50, 30, even 20 years ago it didn't seem that I ever really got tired...?

Cheers!

P.S. Those days are long gone, sad to say...!

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

Speaking of 45 Colt, this one went to the range yesterday. Usually, I start with a .22 LR and had my Mod. 18 with me but, I pulled the 25-5 out of the bag first.

All shooting was done from the standing position with a two hand hold at 15 and 20 yards. The first target, upper left, was with Berry's plated 250 grain bullets over an appropriate load of Unique. The second target was a mix of Berry's bullets and 250 grain Leadhead, 250 grain SWC over 2400.

The Mod. 25 is a pleasure to shoot and the accuracy does not disappoint.

Nice shooting. On my recent Range Day, I shot my 25-5 with X-Treme Bullets plated 250 SWC over a hefty dose of Unique powder. My 686 Plus got some time with 357 Magnum 125 XTP bullets and 38 Special 125 X-Treme plated FP. I always shoot from a standing position with a two hand hold keeping both eyes open.

 

[alwslate]

Why single action? My revolvers, and I, are much more accurate double action.

Just saying.

Kevin

That's odd. Revolvers more accurate if fired double action ? News to me. I had always thought revolver accuracy was a matter of group size not how they were fired. I think you are like many other shooters who confuse accuracy with point of impact relative to point of aim

 

[bmcgilvray]

I'm not seeing revolvers shooting tighter groups when used double-action either.


From the long time Smith & Wesson "Parts List, Instructions For Use, Maintenance, Specifications, Guarantee" provided with each revolver:

"In single action shooting the hammer is pulled or cocked to its extreme rearward position. The gun may then be fired by merely pressing the trigger. This type of shooting is used for deliberate fire where there is time to sight the gun carefully and squeeze the trigger in an unhurried fashion. It is also used in competitive shooting for not only slow fire, but also for timed fire, whereby 20 seconds are allowed for the firing of each 5 shots and rapid fire where 10 seconds are allowed for the firing of each 5 shots.

There is time even in rapid fire shooting for the deliberate handling of the gun in single action fashion just so long as the function is performed without loss of time and in a definite cadence whereby the cycle will be completed within the allotted time.

Where time or other circumstances do not allow for single action fire the revolver is used double action. To fire the revolver double action all that is necessary is to align the weapon with the object which you wish to hit and pull the trigger firmly to the rear. This will cause the hammer to rise to its full cocked position and then fall to explode the cartridge and as previously stated the only limit to the speed that the weapon can be manipulated in this fashion will be determined by the dexterity of the shooter. This type of shooting is required for combat work or under emergency conditions where the gun must be used with great speed."


I don't know when this narrative was first provided in the factory instruction sheet included with the revolvers or who wrote it, but it still applies today. If the factory took the trouble to cut a single action sear on the hammer to provide for that special goodness that is the Smith & Wesson single action trigger then I'm sure going to use it.

This notion that the Smith & Wesson revolver must be used "all double action, all the time" is a fallacy.

This false notion of only using the revolver double action seems to arisen with the internet firearms forum and a new generation of shooters who apparently don't know any better.

 

[rockquarry]

I'm not seeing revolvers shooting tighter groups when used double-action either.


From the long time Smith & Wesson "Parts List, Instructions For Use, Maintenance, Specifications, Guarantee" provided with each revolver:

"In single action shooting the hammer is pulled or cocked to its extreme rearward position. The gun may then be fired by merely pressing the trigger. This type of shooting is used for deliberate fire where there is time to sight the gun carefully and squeeze the trigger in an unhurried fashion. It is also used in competitive shooting for not only slow fire, but also for timed fire, whereby 20 seconds are allowed for the firing of each 5 shots and rapid fire where 10 seconds are allowed for the firing of each 5 shots.

There is time even in rapid fire shooting for the deliberate handling of the gun in single action fashion just so long as the function is performed without loss of time and in a definite cadence whereby the cycle will be completed within the allotted time.

Where time or other circumstances do not allow for single action fire the revolver is used double action. To fire the revolver double action all that is necessary is to align the weapon with the object which you wish to hit and pull the trigger firmly to the rear. This will cause the hammer to rise to its full cocked position and then fall to explode the cartridge and as previously stated the only limit to the speed that the weapon can be manipulated in this fashion will be determined by the dexterity of the shooter. This type of shooting is required for combat work or under emergency conditions where the gun must be used with great speed."


I don't know when this narrative was first provided in the factory instruction sheet included with the revolvers or who wrote it, but it still applies today. If the factory took the trouble to cut a single action sear on the hammer to provide for that special goodness that is the Smith & Wesson single action trigger then I'm sure going to use it.

This notion that the Smith & Wesson revolver must be used "all double action, all the time" is a fallacy.

This false notion of only using the revolver double action seems to arisen with the internet firearms forum and a new generation of shooters who apparently don't know any better.

A number of my Colt and S&W revolvers I've never fired double-action. There's a place for double-action and all should be familiar with it but I find single-action far more useful. I'm not much of a gunfighter but I do enjoy shooting paper targets.

 

[alwslate]

I also find single action far more useful. I like aimed shots rather than the fast as you can double action blasting gunfighter style. Except for a couple of J frames none of my S&W and Colt revolvers have ever been fired double action.

 

[bmcgilvray]

A number of my Colt and S&W revolvers I've never fired double-action. There's a place for double-action and all should be familiar with it but I find single-action far more useful. I'm not much of a gunfighter but I do enjoy shooting paper targets.

Me either.

I can hurry things up no end and make a good showing double action when shooting favorite K-Frames or N-Frames double action and I do practice double action regularly. But, I don't live and breathe double action shooting with my double action revolver shooting. I'm not a lawman and am not so angst ridden that I feel I must only use the double action revolvers in double action mode for fear that my "combat skills" will degrade.

The majority of revolver shooting taking place here is done in single action mode. I'm a sport/hobby/ shooter for its entertainment value and not primarily concerned with only defeating bad guys.

That said and to bring this tortured tangent back around to the good .45 Colt cartridge, the only .45 Colt revolver on hand here is a Colt New Service and I can't shoot a Colt New Service in double action mode for squat! Well, I might could manage it at trench clearing distance.

 

[StrawHat]

That's odd. Revolvers more accurate if fired double action ? News to me. I had always thought revolver accuracy was a matter of group size not how they were fired. I think you are like many other shooters who confuse accuracy with point of impact relative to point of aim

Accuracy is placing the bullets in a small group in the center of a target. I was a competitive PPC shooter. I learned how to shoot, accurately, with double action.

Too bad those completions died out.

But, I still stand by what I posted earlier and encourage the OP to continue practicing.

Kevin

 

[Hair Trigger]

Did I say Ransom rest? Don't mis quote me and then respond as if that's what I said. To check the accuracy of a gun or a given load the gun must be fired from a bench rest single action. Everyone knows that. Otherwise you are testing yourself instead of the gun.

What's the real difference? You might have a gun that, if mounted in a vise, could put every round through the same hole, but if shot freehand (and you were a lousy shot) would pattern like a shotgun at long range. OTOH, you might have a gun with mediocre accuracy, but you're a deadeye shot and can keep them all in the ten-ring. I understand testing the gun with the shooter out of the equation to determine its absolute accuracy, but the shooter is ultimately part of the accuracy of any firearm, as is the ammo you're putting through it.

Here's my effort with my 4" M25-5, oversized throats and all, from 25 yards with my 250 grain RNFP reloads. Double action.

As long as you can consistently hit the target in center mass, you're doing pretty good for self defense shooting, especially with a heavy, big-bore revolver.