Need help identifying a S&W DA 45

[JSR III]

First of all, serial numbers on barrels and cylinders do not count because they are considered parts and can be changed. They can also be purchased without going through an FFL. The FRAME is the only part of a firearm that is considered a FIREARM and must be serial numbered. S&W applied serial numbers to the frame butt and the front of the grip strap in the case of guns designed to wear over sized target stocks like the .22/32 Bekeart HFT's.

Most folks including FFL's do not always know this and many times as someone mentioned use the assembly numbers found in the yoke area as the serial number. I question how many ATF agents or LE officers are aware of all of the serial number location nuances of every gun ever manufactured.

Personally, in over 50 years of gun ownership while hunting or going to the range, displaying at events or gun shows, I have never once been stopped by the police, the ATF, the secret service or Butch Cassidy and the Sun dance Kid and asked to see the serial number on any firearm.

Now that aside, as stated above, the gun violates the serial number rules. That could easily be rectified with 4 number stamps 0, 2, 5, & 1.

Having read all of the posts above, I cannot recall if there was a mention of looking through a chamber and reading the serial number on the yoke arm or even if this gun would fall into the time frame when this location was used.

I also wonder, since the photos show the side plate removed, if there was a number on the reverse side and if it matched those in the yoke area.

All in all, I would not be concerned but that's me.

 

[handejector]

I'm not so sure it ever had a serial number stamped on the butt.

INTERESTING statement, Don! What makes you say that? I have never seen an S&W Revolver or SS without a number on the butt or frontstrap.

Having read all of the posts above, I cannot recall if there was a mention of looking through a chamber and reading the serial number on the yoke arm or even if this gun would fall into the time frame when this location was used.

See Post # 10----

Thanks for the info, I have found the serial number it is 0251 on both the bottom of the barrel and the rear face of the yoke.

 

[JSR III]

Thanks Lee, my memory is good, it's just short. Just as a reminder, when did the government begin requiring serial numbers on firearms? If this gun was built prior to that date, would it still need to have one?

So, if I'm reading all of this correctly, with 0251 under the barrel and on the yoke, it definitely would appear to be a club gun, at least to this rookie collector.

As the curator of the Club Gun Museum in Warren, MA, perhaps Don can help us to understand more.

 

[jima1647]

I have sent in my $100.00 to get a Letter of Authenticity. I have used the number 0251 as the serial number. The number 8804 is located on the yoke and on the side plate that was removed in the picture. I will keep this forum informed what I find out. Thanks for all your help.

 

[Club Gun Fan]

Lee
Because of it's final destination. Remember, there is a Revolving Rifle that was used by Winchester to test the RR ammo. It has no serial number and is in the white. Roy lettered it and the last person I know who had it was Clarence Rinke. I'm convinced 0251 is as right as rain.

 

[Mbrgr1]

I'm convinced 0251 is as right as rain.

Best thread since "Stainless Model 15" Love it!

 

[handejector]

Lee
Because of it's final destination. Remember, there is a Revolving Rifle that was used by Winchester to test the RR ammo. It has no serial number and is in the white. Roy lettered it and the last person I know who had it was Clarence Rinke. I'm convinced 0251 is as right as rain.

I'm still perplexed-
Why number a barrel and a yoke if there is not a numbered frame to match them to?

Also- why is the cylinder not numbered? Replacement?
I'm curious if the extractor is numbered......

 

[Mbrgr1]

I have sent in my $100.00, I will keep this forum informed what I find out. Thanks for all your help.

Please don't disappear like some others!


It would be like taking candy from multiple babies!

 

[DARE]

jima1647. Think you just won the lottery. Don thinks your gun is special and he is the Club Gun Expert. You are probably going to need help carrying all the money your gun is worth.
I am available and work cheap.
Very interesting thread. Way to go you newcomer you.

Well, new poster. See you have been a member since 2016. I am the newcomer. Got here in 2021.

 

[Catwrangler]

My first firearm was an Ithaca model 49 rifle given to me. Not a serial number to be found. Some cos. Were not serializing until 1968 and none of those early guns wer3 suddenly I
Contraband. JMHO

 

[Club Gun Fan]

Lee
When Club Guns were concerned there were no rules.

 

[mscampbell2734]

My first firearm was an Ithaca model 49 rifle given to me. Not a serial number to be found. Some cos. Were not serializing until 1968 and none of those early guns wer3 suddenly I
Contraband. JMHO

Actually depending on where you live yes they are contraband. In the People's Republic of California age is no defense regarding firearms serial number.

There is a process to apply to the ATF for a serial number which means it's up to the owner to be in compliance with California law.

 

[robvious]

1968 GCA Mandated serial numbers on ALL firearms... the Act also declared that any firearm that already had a serial number applied could not be removed.

 

[Muley Gil]

My first firearm was an Ithaca model 49 rifle given to me. Not a serial number to be found. Some cos. Were not serializing until 1968 and none of those early guns wer3 suddenly I
Contraband. JMHO

My 1st firearm was also an Ithaca Model 49, bought new in 1969. The serial number is 49xxxxxxx. They sure caught up quick!

 

[Aussie Collector]

Are firearms that were made prior to the Gun Control Act of 1968 required to be marked with a serial number by a licensee?

No, unless remanufactured after the enactment of the GCA, October 22, 1968.

Are firearms that were made prior to the Gun Control Act of 1968 required to be marked with a serial number by a licensee? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

 

[steelslaver]

IF it was produced prior to the GCA without a serial number it is legal. BUT, if it had one prior to 1968 GCA and it was removed it is illegal.

Proving any S&W revolver was made without a serial number would be a very hard sell. How much concern one should have over processing such a gun is another matter with a whole lot of factors entering in. Unless the owner did something real ignorant the odds of a problem are pretty small IMHO

This subject comes up here about once a month or so. I have yet to hear of anyone being arrested or charged for it even after announcing their ownership of such a gun on a forum where a good percentage of the members are part or present law enforcement.

 

[H Richard]

I believe what Don is suggesting that there is some documentation that links to this firearm at the factory records. If it was mine I would letter it to find out.

 

[22hipower]

IF it was produced prior to the GCA without a serial number it is legal. BUT, if it had one prior to 1968 GCA and it was removed it is illegal.

Proving any S&W revolver was made without a serial number would be a very hard sell. How much concern one should have over processing such a gun is another matter with a whole lot of factors entering in. Unless the owner did something real ignorant the odds of a problem are pretty small IMHO

This subject comes up here about once a month or so. I have yet to hear of anyone being arrested or charged for it even after announcing their ownership of such a gun on a forum where a good percentage of the members are part or present law enforcement.

Agree, technically a problem but doubtful that many ATF agents would know the difference. And if they did, unless pursuing some other criminal action, doubtful that they'd do much other than confiscate the gun. You never know though. . . . . I've seen several 1917s with missing butt numbers sold by FFLs using the assembly number in the yoke as the SN. Of course I've bought guns from FFLs who also used the assembly number rather than the SN on the butt. Go figure.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

 

[Club Gun Fan]

In December of 2019 Rock Island Auction sold a Model of 1917 listed as NSN. It was given to George Baker. He worked at Smith & Wesson. There were a number of revolvers from the factory without a serial number. I don't own it, I wish I did.

 

[steelslaver]

In December of 2019 Rock Island Auction sold a Model of 1917 listed as NSN. It was given to George Baker. He worked at Smith & Wesson. There were a number of revolvers from the factory without a serial number. I don't own it, I wish I did.

Once again with S&W never say never.

I have twice had FFL guys put down the assembly number on early S&W numbers. I would also bet that at this point a good share of LEOs are straight up semi auto people and think the serial number of a handgun is somewhere other than the grip frame. No semis have one in such a location.

IF you did a crime or used it in a shooting it would be used as an added offense, maybe. My one brother inherited my dads Damascus double. The thieves chopped the barrel off short, they where never charged for having a sawed off. My brother could not get it back however.