The cost to get a vehicle serviced nowadays, Wow!

[BC38]

You are right, I have never owned one or driven long term. However, at one point in my life I was a test driver for Mercedes and we did had to test that start stop system, different cars, different engines and transmissions, but always the same procedure. 8hr shift, 6.5hr driving time. That was back in 2007 I want to say, and starting back then I did tell myself not ever to buy a car with that feature.

Sure, they might have gotten better over time, but just imagine, it's like all the firetrucks in an emergency. They start the engine and go. So these cars roll up to the light, shut off and once it's green start up and you accelerate. Oil pressure, everything is down. While I idle my car, everything turns and is lubricated. Once green I accelerate an already moving engine.

My opinion is that it's easier on the material and the fuel savings are neglectable.

And don't get me wrong, it's great that technology keeps evolving, if we like it or not. What bothers me is that you cannot omit to it anymore when buying a car. It's not an option, it's standard and you'll pay for it, if you want it or not.

OK, well, I have to give you credit for admitting that the most current info or experience you are basing your opinion on is at least 15 years out of date. Hopefully you can also recognize that such out of date info is a poor basis for forming an opinion.

Have you ever heard of Moore's Law? It is well-known theory regarding the evolving capabilities of computer systems over time. Do a little research on that topic and you'll see how it applies to this subject.

Anyways, like I said, the 2021 Malibu I drove for 9 months got 15%-30% better mileage than what you quoted for your smaller 2010 Ford Fusion, and I don't think the difference was as simple as a Ford vs Chevy issue.

But as always and with so many things, YMMV (pun intended).

 

[steelslaver]

Big difference is modern lubricants. The amount of time you set at a light or even 2 is not enough for the components to lose lubrication. Very few vehicles do not go over the 200,000 mark these days before the motor itself is worn out and that is with less frequent oil changes than in the 80s

 

[Alton]

On when you should get a brake job, that depends on the driver. My wife can never make it to 100K miles, me 200K plus. My 2001 Silverado HD is around 290K and original brakes. I have changed the fluid. My wife's Silverado has the start stop but can be avoided with a button on the dash. The truck is a 3.0 diesel that gets 26 mpg everyday. No reason for it.

 

[JJEH]

OK, well, I have to give you credit for admitting that the most current info or experience you are basing your opinion on is at least 15 years out of date. Hopefully you can also recognize that such out of date info is a poor basis for forming an opinion.

I was about to write a big response, but I won't. We all have different training and experiences, and with that we have formed different opinions.

I was working in the automotive business, and what I learned then has shaped my opinions of today. And yes, unfortunately it will switch into politics if we really want to tackle this subject.

I was exposed to start/stop and I hated it. Same with other electronic helpers like Distronic, which is the MB radar system for cruise control. It will also come to a complete stop if there's an object detected in front of it. We had to test it. Was a hit and miss. Big lawsuits happened later on because it didn't work when it was foggy and big accidents happened.

Auto mode on the headlights. Really?! Auto mode on windshield wipers. Really?! Lane control, drowsy camera, auto park mode, self-driving capabilities and so on. Why? All it does is train you to be lazy and give it into the hands of sensors and circuit boards. People don't pay attention anymore because they rely on electronics to do the job for them.

Did you hear about the Tesla lawsuit with the interior cameras?

I just can't support this nonsense.

 

[Ranger17]

I've noticed prices have gone up even for routine services (we have Hondas), but with one arthritic thumb that had a joint removed last fall (repacked with tendon, yuck) and the other needing the same repair, even swapping out air and cabin filters can be a chore. And with a bad shoulder? Not even considering doing our oil changes or tire rotations anymore. So will rely on the dealer and a local shop for repairs. Remembering that parts costs like everything else has gone up not to mention the serious labor issues a shop deals with.
When I was younger? Did all my own work including engine swaps (raise your hands if you too used a hand winch and large tree branch for a swap lol) and all mods. Even took the auto mechanics tech program as a career choice but moved on when I realized I'd have to work on front wheel drive and other stuff not related to muscle and classic cars. Oh well.

 

[NYlakesider]

I was about to write a big response, but I won't. We all have different training and experiences, and with that we have formed different opinions.

I was working in the automotive business, and what I learned then has shaped my opinions of today. And yes, unfortunately it will switch into politics if we really want to tackle this subject.

I was exposed to start/stop and I hated it. Same with other electronic helpers like Distronic, which is the MB radar system for cruise control. It will also come to a complete stop if there's an object detected in front of it. We had to test it. Was a hit and miss. Big lawsuits happened later on because it didn't work when it was foggy and big accidents happened.

Auto mode on the headlights. Really?! Auto mode on windshield wipers. Really?! Lane control, drowsy camera, auto park mode, self-driving capabilities and so on. Why? All it does is train you to be lazy and give it into the hands of sensors and circuit boards. People don't pay attention anymore because they rely on electronics to do the job for them.

Did you hear about the Tesla lawsuit with the interior cameras?

I just can't support this nonsense.

I have a lot of miles driving since the erly 1960s, all sorts of vechicles from Motor Cycles to 18 wheelers and of course have formed a few opinions over that time.

I will try to make this as short as I can.

IMHO most of the people that like and embrace a LOT of this nanny nonsense are far from good driver's and a good chance many of them should not be out driving on the public roads.

Just recently I watched young person backing up in a large stores parking lot, his back up camera was not working,it was like watching a 3 Stooges Comedy. (Apologies to the Stooges I would think in real life they were good drivers)

Yes I certainly classify as a curmudgeon with a good bit of Luddite thrown in for good measure.

 

[LVSteve]

I have a lot of miles driving since the erly 1960s, all sorts of vechicles from Motor Cycles to 18 wheelers and of course have formed a few opinions over that time.

I will try to make this as short as I can.

IMHO most of the people that like and embrace a LOT of this nanny nonsense are far from good driver's and a good chance many of them should not be out driving on the public roads.

Just recently I watched young person backing up in a large stores parking lot, his back up camera was not working,it was like watching a 3 Stooges Comedy. (Apologies to the Stooges I would think in real life they were good drivers)

Yes I certainly classify as a curmudgeon with a good bit of Luddite thrown in for good measure.

The problem with backing up a modern car is twofold. First, is vision. The high tails on modern cars for aerodynamics mean that you simply cannot see out the back properly. On top of that, crashworthiness requirements has brought us huge I-beams supporting the roof. They make lousy windows.

Second, in what state does drivers' ed teach backing up using your mirrors? Oh wait, most states got rid of drivers' ed, and the driving test in most of the US is a joke, too.

 

[NYlakesider]

The problem with backing up a modern car is twofold. First, is vision. The high tails on modern cars for aerodynamics mean that you simply cannot see out the back properly. On top of that, crashworthiness requirements has brought us huge I-beams supporting the roof. They make lousy windows.

Second, in what state does drivers' ed teach backing up using your mirrors? Oh wait, most states got rid of drivers' ed, and the driving test in most much of the US is a joke, too.

Try backing up or park a late model Vette Convertible by mirrors with the top up, it can get quite interesting at times. Actually of all the nanny nonsense out there the BU camera is a good idea. It makes sort of good drivers out of bad drivers most times.
Course the camera like most nannies is a crutch and you should have the basic skills necessary just in case your crutch dies!

What they now teach or require for getting drivers licenses I have no clue. I had to do road tests 3 times, one at 16 when I got my Jr operators license, then later when I got my Motor Cycle license and then later for when I got my CDL so I could drive big trucks.

 

[djohns6]

Second, in what state does drivers' ed teach backing up using your mirrors? Oh wait, most states got rid of drivers' ed, and the driving test in most much of the US is a joke, too.

I don't know the details of what they teach but Driver's Ed is required in Louisiana and it's only available from private driving schools . No more Driver's Ed in High School . And it's expensive as you can imagine .

 

[Ranger17]

Only dropping my .02 on features some call "nanny" and seem to question the features and those who use them.
If I may say, not all drivers rely on them. Speaking for myself, I have been driving since the 70's and have (knock on wood) maintained a safe record. But these days there seems to be more and more reckless behavior, aggressive tactics, and volume on roads not designed for it. So why not use a feature if it may help prevent an incident. After all (at least in our cars) most of those features can be turned off if you dont want to use them.

 

[BC38]

Big difference is modern lubricants. The amount of time you set at a light or even 2 is not enough for the components to lose lubrication. Very few vehicles do not go over the 200,000 mark these days before the motor itself is worn out and that is with less frequent oil changes than in the 80s

You got that right!
Back in the 1970's when I started driving, any car with 100k on the clock that DIDN'T need an engine overhaul, was a really good one!
Nowadays any car that doesn't make it to 250k before needing an engine overhaul is a piece of junk!
The manufacturing tolerances, materials, and techniques have improved some in the last 50 years, but not that much.
The biggest difference is the oil technology. More refined, better additives, wider viscosity range, just better all around.

 

[BC38]

I don't know the details of what they teach but Driver's Ed is required in Louisiana and it's only available from private driving schools . No more Driver's Ed in High School . And it's expensive as you can imagine .

Washington State requires drivers ed for 16 year olds to get a license. But if you're 18 or older it isn't required.

But just like Louisiana, they don't offer it in public schools, so you have to get it from an expensive private driving school.

 

[BC38]

Only dropping my .02 on features some call "nanny" and seem to question the features and those who use them.
If I may say, not all drivers rely on them. Speaking for myself, I have been driving since the 70's and have (knock on wood) maintained a safe record. But these days there seems to be more and more reckless behavior, aggressive tactics, and volume on roads not designed for it. So why not use a feature if it may help prevent an incident. After all (at least in our cars) most of those features can be turned off if you dont want to use them.

That 2021 Malibu I drove had a bunch of these features too. Some were useful - like the blind spot warning light in the mirrors. Of course I didn't completely rely on them, but I used them nonetheless.
The lane assist was more annoying than helpful because it "bumped" the steering if you made a lane change without signaling - which I have been known to do on occasion when there are no vehicles within a quarter mile behind me.
The adaptive cruise control that backed off when you came up on a slower vehicle was OK, but I never relied on it.
The backup camera was nice, but not something I needed, heck I usually forgot to look at it because I'm so used to backing with mirrors it is second nature for me.

 

[venomballistics]

You are right, I have never owned one or driven long term. However, at one point in my life I was a test driver for Mercedes and we did had to test that start stop system, different cars, different engines and transmissions, but always the same procedure. 8hr shift, 6.5hr driving time. That was back in 2007 I want to say, and starting back then I did tell myself not ever to buy a car with that feature.

Sure, they might have gotten better over time, but just imagine, it's like all the firetrucks in an emergency. They start the engine and go. So these cars roll up to the light, shut off and once it's green start up and you accelerate. Oil pressure, everything is down. While I idle my car, everything turns and is lubricated. Once green I accelerate an already moving engine.

My opinion is that it's easier on the material and the fuel savings are neglectable.

And don't get me wrong, it's great that technology keeps evolving, if we like it or not. What bothers me is that you cannot omit to it anymore when buying a car. It's not an option, it's standard and you'll pay for it, if you want it or not.

I have it in my Rubasoo.
It's an impressive system for doing what it does. But, you nail a lot of my concerns.
It's restart feels little more than a misfire. But the fact that there is no oil pressure. That oil film protecting parts is where?
I've put about 2500 miles behind it, and the system has saved all of 0.47 gallons of gas ... yup .. that's all.
I've saved enough gas to mow my yard.
I have begun to train myself to shut the system off when I start it up. The oil starvation in a turbocharged power plant offends my sensibilities. The Juice just is not worth the squeeze

 

[venomballistics]

IMHO most of the people that like and embrace a LOT of this nanny nonsense are far from good driver's and a good chance many of them should not be out driving on the public roads.

It far extends beyond nanny feature dependence.
I watched the quality of my fellow motorist deteriorate significantly over the past 5 years.
You just know they are relying on some of the whizzbang gadgets when they are violently changing lanes without signaling with inches of clearance at freeway speeds.
It'll take trauma to straighten some of them out.

 

[johngalt]

It far extends beyond nanny feature dependence.
I watched the quality of my fellow motorist deteriorate significantly over the past 5 years.
You just know they are relying on some of the whizzbang gadgets when they are violently changing lanes without signaling with inches of clearance at freeway speeds.
It'll take trauma to straighten some of them out.

Here's an observation about parking strategies in multi-level parking decks.

Almost no one thinks in 3-D. I often get stuck behind someone pootling along at a snail's pace through the almost full level. There's a spot! Nope, don't like it so on to the next. Then up to the next level and repeat...

The bottom levels fill up, the upper levels are nearly empty. I go up a level and get a spot almost right next to the elevator. And it isn't just people unfamiliar with the garage. I see people with long term parking contracts do it, all the bottom levels are filled up with the same cars.

 

[BC38]

I have it in my Rubasoo.
It's an impressive system for doing what it does. But, you nail a lot of my concerns.
It's restart feels little more than a misfire. But the fact that there is no oil pressure. That oil film protecting parts is where?
I've put about 2500 miles behind it, and the system has saved all of 0.47 gallons of gas ... yup .. that's all.
I've saved enough gas to mow my yard...

That is a very interesting and precise number. Please share the exact formula that you used to come up with such a precise "0.47 gallons saved" number.

Inquiring minds want to know...

BTW, with modern oil quality, that fractions-of-a-second long "no oil pressure" period isn't nearly the concern that it was decades go when oil technology was in its infancy (compared to today).

The quality of modern engine oils - which has increased the longevity of engines 2x-3x what it was 50 years ago - is more than enough to compensate for those extra startup cycles.

Will the extra restarts shorten the life of the engine? Maybe. As an engineer, I'd be more than willing to bet that the difference it will make in engine longevity will be FAR, FAR less than the increased level of wear you would see from shooting +P ammo in your 38spl 1960's era revolver.

Any additional wear will be MORE than compensated for by the fuel savings, especially when the cost of regular unleaded gas is in the $4-$5 per gallon range, as it currently is and will almost certainly continue to be for the foreseeable future.

Even at an average of $4.50 per gallon, that 17% fuel savings - going from 30 mpg to 35 mpg - adds up to roughly 7.5 cents per mile. Over a span of 200k miles driven (low end estimate of a modern vehicle's engine longevity), that is just under $15,000 saved in fuel costs.

So, unless you actually spend more than $15,000 in extra repair costs (very unlikely), you are still AHEAD of the game.

These kinds of things are always a trade-off. There is no free lunch. But if the savings are greater than the cost that it takes to achieve them, that is a WIN!

The numbers don't lie.

As always, this is just my perspective/analysis, and YMMV.

 

[Kaarde]

Do you have dual plugs like the Hemi does? It's that damn labor. I always do the plugs myself, just invest in a good set of tools and it will be no problem.

No, just 8 standard plugs. Had my 15 yo son help me and taught him how to do it. He learned how to save himself some money and we got to spend time together.

 

[BC38]

No, just 8 standard plugs. Had my 15 yo son help me and taught him how to do it. He learned how to save himself some money and we got to spend time together.

Good on you man!

My 19 year old boy and I spent a couple of hours together today removing the starter from his 2002 CRV, and we'll spend a couple of more hours tomorrow putting the starter back in and getting it all put back together.

IMO, that kind of father-son bonding time is worth WAY more than the $$ you save doing the repairs yourself.

Again, just my perspective and opinion...

 

[wood714]

I don't know the details of what they teach but Driver's Ed is required in Louisiana and it's only available from private driving schools . No more Driver's Ed in High School . And it's expensive as you can imagine .

All my friends went to a private drivers school and had their license in no time. My folks made me take the 10 week Drivers Ed my school offered. I swear I was the only one in my class the teacher never used his brake on. My girlfriends brother was in my class. He scared us to death.