What are they smoking at S&W?

Colt is now owned by CZ and at least thus far, this has not resulted in any serious quality drop ( although the current production python is nothing like those of the old days)[/QUOTE]

And the irony in this is just listen to Cz folks, they're afraid Colt will drag CZ down.
 
Colt and CZ are for all intents and purposes…completely separate entities under a corporate umbrella. CZ wanted Colt to have access to Colt's long established international military sales network.

Colt seems to be doing just fine (with a very few bumps) as a separate entity now it's out from their seemingly never ending debt situation…and are owned by gun people and not corporate weasels trying to milk the company for its assets.
 
What's weird is that the old M29 Classic DX laser engravings look much better by comparison, and I'm not a fan of that style.
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Even the best companies make lemons from time to time. I ordered a pair of bean boots from LL Bean for my Wife. I told her my Uncle worked for them and it was a family tradition to only wear Bean Boots in winter due to their quality and durability. Well, they showed up with the worst stitching and gluing I ever saw on a pair of boots. Called them up, they replaced them and were apologetic, I said it was ok as everyone has lemons, and the problem was resolved. Like someone mentioned earlier, no company is perfect, even the best. As long as they replaced it with one that meets your standards, I would say that is a happy ending. New Smiths get a lot of grief, and I do prefer older ones, but they are by no means as bad as people make them out to be.
 
I would not be happy with it either. I see that Smith and Wesson is currently owned by Saf-T Hammer, which is publicly traded.
Publicly traded companies are forced to serve the interests of investors by maximizing profits through continual cost cutting. Failure to do so results in stiff fines. Cost cutting can sometimes be done without negatively impacting quality, but too often quality suffers.
I worked for many years as a rank and file worker on an assembly line, then spent several years as an inspector in the quality control department. Time and time again I observed that when I began to see very few defects in the product the company saw it as a signal to eliminate a few assembly positions, move portions of those jobs to other workers, and speed the line up.
They seemed to feel that maximum productivity wasn't being met unless a certain percentage of junk was going out the door.
To me, this is ignorant and short sighted. In putting quality first, big profits might not be realized in the short term, but in the long term the customer will appreciate an excellent product, and the company will make an excellent profit and endure for generations.
Too many old and trusted companies try to cash in on their name, but are no longer worthy of our trust.


This.

Investors come first in a publicly-traded company, customers are lower on the food chain.

The old saying is when S&W was taken over by Bangor Punta, they "went from being a gun company to a company that sells guns".
 
I have a recently manufactured Colt Combat Elite Commander. The laser etchings look worse than that. It's not only SW, any manufacturer that has to bend over to unions has to cut costs someplace to show a profit (and I don't have any problems with a company making a profit and neither should anyone as that's why they are in business) but at the same time give the consumer a decent product.

I hate to remind you guys (and gals) but the 60 - 80s are long gone. You ain't gonna get the same product now as then. But when you factor in inflation, you're paying similar prices for new now, but just less craftsmanship and quality thanks to labor costs.

Just my opinion…..
 
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I have a recently manufactured Colt Combat Elite Commander. The laser etchings look worse than that. It's not only SW, any manufacturer that has to bend over to unions has to cut costs someplace to show a profit (and I don't have any problems with a company making a profit and neither should anyone as that's why they are in business) but at the same time give the consumer a decent product.

I hate to remind you guys (and gals) but the 60 - 80s are long gone. You ain't gonna get the same product now as then. But when you factor in inflation, you're paying similar prices for new now, but just less craftsmanship and quality thanks to labor costs.

Just my opinion…..


I share your opinion, I think you absolutely correct.
 
We can whine and moan all we want, I know I do my fair share, but the past is the past.


And I am not sure why we want to blame unions, but the bottom line is if I want the quality appearance of the old revolvers, I buy the old revolvers.
 
In looking through a few dozen gunbroker listings with pictures of NIB S&Ws, it seems this poor laser engraving issue is only an issue on the blued classic series. Again looks like they lasered after bluing, which is an interesting decision. S&W stainless guns still have good laser engraving as they've had for years
 
I own 3 S&W revolvers made since 2000. All have been excellent.

2 66-7s purchases used. These are the most accurate Smiths I've ever shot.

1 625 PC purchased new in 2019. Besides the gawd-awful candy-cane grips, it's been a great performer.
 
So everyone is in a frenzy over some thread by a new member which links to YouTube and Google and another forum?


How many others have experienced this??


Good Grief:rolleyes:
 
So everyone is in a frenzy over some thread by a new member which links to YouTube and Google and another forum?


How many others have experienced this??


Good Grief:rolleyes:

I suppose you are trying to suggest that my post comes from a place of being inauthetic by bizarrely highlighting the fact that I utilized external links :eek:. In turn I say it is rather suggestive of your own character you would rather do this than examine the content of the post itself, regardless of how new I may be to this particular forum. The fact of the matter is that these new laser engravings on the "Classics" series are simply unacceptable. They have been since November of 2022 at the earliest per my own personal experience. This is something anyone interested in purchasing the classics should be made aware of. Now, I am not in any way besmirching the actual mechanical quality or function of these new firearms in anyway as many of the modern S&Ws are certainly superior in many ways mechanically to older models. I am however shining light on an aesthetic issue that for many of us, especially those of us who would be interested in paying hundreds of dollars more for a blue gun over a stainless one, would be interested in knowing. With that said, I have not seen really any place online where these new laser engravings are being mentioned and rightfully put to shame. That is why I made this account and this post on this forum as this place would likely be the place where any discussion on new developments when it comes to S&W would receive the most viewership and widest dissemination. Now I have lurked this forum for some time and eventually would have made an account anyway to purchase from the classifieds section; plus it's nice to be able to view images. I've been active on Berettaforum and gunboards for awhile now as well. In any case, you can continue to doubt my authenticity and I will continue to bring these amateurish laser engravings on the S&W Classics series to light.
 
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R.....E.....L.....A.....X

Most likely these frames were all engraved on maybe one or two shifts when making a run of these "Classic Series" guns. Maybe the operator of the engraving machine may not have caught it, but you would have hoped that down the assembly line or final inspection, someone would have flagged them. But in today's world, they still get sent out and the question is how many really get returned.
Remember, Smith and Wesson may make a small batch of guns with bad engravings, then they are shipped to multiple S&W distributors all over the States, and all of a sudden we have an Epidemic of bad revolvers.( or so the internet thinks)

Relax that's what warranty is for
 
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I'm an old man so I do remember when craftsmanship was a necessary component of customer attraction. The major arms manufacturers stressed workmanship because they had to. And it took skilled craftspeople to build things because in the days before CNC machining complex assembly required fitting. Time was when a skilled worker could look forward to retiring out of the company and this built a sense of belonging and pride.It personally mattered to the S&W workforce what went out the door.
It seems to me that we consumers who used to drive sales now are being manipulated to purchase "new" items by the manufacturers that in many cases give us less value and less utility, but as consumers we are faced with "take it or leave it" and in very many cases we have no choice. As a case in point, several years ago a major razor manufacturer simply stopped making replacement blades for their most popular razor forcing everyone to move to different design that, at least in my case, gave me a lousy shave.
There is no secret why classic S&W revolvers are steadily rising in value
 
Time was when a skilled worker could look forward to retiring out of the company and this built a sense of belonging and pride.It personally mattered to the S&W workforce what went out the door.

Now that is something that makes a guy think. Nowadays it's common for Americans to change jobs and companies every few years. There's no long-term personal investment in these companies or the product they produce.

I think this same sort of thing is happening/has happened with Beretta USA and Beretta Italy, especially with the Gallatin, TN plant. I am of the opinion, after owning dozens of Beretta firearms from Ackk MD, Gallatin, TN and Italy, that the American guns, while mechanically well-made, lack the overall fit, finish, and quality craftsmanship that the Italian guns exude in every small detail down to how neatly the extractor pin is staked into the slide. The people that work at the 500 year old Italian Beretta factory are quite literally generational employees, not to mention that old world mentality of sticking to one job and one company is still ever present in a small village like Gardone Val Trompia. These people are personally invested in the product they produce and they quite literally have Beretta in their DNA.
 
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