What are they smoking at S&W?

[Lobster Picnic]

Companies like Colt, Kimber and even Henry have identified an unserved market for quality revolvers. I looked at a Kimber K6s and saw very tight tolerances, a beautiful satin finish and...WHAT'S THIS? Recessed chambers on the cylinder! S&W dropped those in 1982.

 

[Mbrgr1]

IMHO

Lasers are for aimin, not engravin.

 

[jareds06]

Lasers are for aimin, not engravin.

It can be done right. I just took these pictures at the beretta gallery in Dallas. The first shotgun is the 486 Parallelo and is a production side by side that has laser engravings done more than adequately. The next one is the Sparrow Hawk... Don't look up how much this one costs. Seriously, I couldn't believe thes were laser engraved at first and the only thing that really gives it away is how the engravings are almost too perfect.

Click the images for the full 6000x4000 resolution image

Aaand here's a hand engraved 455EELL, a one of a kind double rifle in .470 Nitro Express, because why not?

 

[CO_Kid]

It's not going to get better until they complete their move to TN and the new workers gain experience. All of the good talent at S&W have found new jobs because they're not moving with the company. I won't buy a new S&W until that happens. We see QC issues on our duty handguns and rifles at about 10x what they used to be.

 

[Tom S.]

I have a recently manufactured Colt Combat Elite Commander. The laser etchings look worse than that. It's not only SW, any manufacturer that has to bend over to unions has to cut costs someplace to show a profit (and I don't have any problems with a company making a profit and neither should anyone as that's why they are in business) but at the same time give the consumer a decent product.

I hate to remind you guys (and gals) but the 60 - 80s are long gone. You ain't gonna get the same product now as then. But when you factor in inflation, you're paying similar prices for new now, but just less craftsmanship and quality thanks to labor costs.

Just my opinion…..

What union????? I didn't know S&W employees were members of a union? How about Ruger, Beretta, Sig, Glock, Taurus - are they union too?

Would you care to make a wager? Here's my bet: I'll bet that after inflation is taken into consideration, the amount of money from each gun S&W sells that is used to pay for labor is less than it was 50 or 60 years ago.

 

[SnidelyWhiplash]

It's not only direct labor costs…it's the legacy costs and the complete compensation package…health care…both individual and family both as active employees and after retirement.

 

[steelslaver]

While it may well be true that employees no longer have much if any loyalty to the company a big part of that is the direct result of companies having no true commitment to those employees.

"Why should I care. If management can figure out a way make a gun $1 a copy cheaper without my skill, they will send me out the door." "Why have a fitting department and pay all those people, if we use MIM technology we can save a $1 a gun."

We have reached a point in this country where management has no faith in labor and labor distrusts management. How this started is like asking which came first, the chicken or the egg. Main point is that it is the modern reality. Until there is trust and commitment that runs both way we will never truly be great again.

One of the problems I see is both sides are driven by the short term. Companies looking at quarterly reports and profits with little regard for where they want to be in 20 years. Employees demanding immediate compensation.

At first as contract worker in the oil industry I have been laid off several times when the refinery's profit margin dropped or work slowed down.

 

[Jay Hall]

That is an outrage!!!

 

[Jay Hall]

Same thing happened to Beretta when they moved to Tenn. horrible,,although I will admit I did buy a 1 of 1000 Tenn Volunteer Brig. and it was amazing fit and finish.

 

[Protocall_Design]

As much as it pains me to see the current state of affairs at S&W, I'm glad they are still making revolvers.

The overall quality is actually pretty high, in spite of the problems. Most (not all) of the problems have to do with assembly or finishing. Some are easily corrected with the tools and knowledge of what to do.

I have owned or shot most kinds of revos out there, and I think Smith still has the best basic design of all of them. I would hate to have to change to a different brand for a number of reasons.

The bottom line to me is - we have to deal with reality as it is. Nothing is ever perfect, but it could be a lot worse if S&W quit making revos entirely, and just went with autos. Thank you, Smith & Wesson.

 

[Tom S.]

It's not only direct labor costs…it's the legacy costs and the complete compensation package…health care…both individual and family both as active employees and after retirement.

Very few companies still have legacy costs having divested themselves of both pensions via 401k programs and cancelling post retirement health care or requiring employees wait until Medicare eligible and then paying them a stipend that may or may not cover a Medicare gap insurance.

 

[329]

The current state of Smith quality is not at a high point which is why I don't buy without getting my mitts on one first. Quality runs the gamut. That being said you can find excellent new revolvers if you are willing to do some hunting. My 686 Delux and 19 carry comp are examples. It takes a lot to produce a revolver. When you think of the $850 you pay for a stainless 686 v the $550 you pay for a glock I find it amazing the 686 is only $850.

 

[Tom S.]

The current state of Smith quality is not at a high point which is why I don't buy without getting my mitts on one first. Quality runs the gamut. That being said you can find excellent new revolvers if you are willing to do some hunting. My 686 Delux and 19 carry comp are examples. It takes a lot to produce a revolver. When you think of the $850 you pay for a stainless 686 v the $550 you pay for a glock I find it amazing the 686 is only $850.

I agree but I have a machinist and manufacturing background. Most people's mind set is based upon how much money is leaving their wallet.

 

[steelslaver]

I have maybe 10 recent vintage revolvers, (after the lock era) mostly they are alloy frame models. Not a single real problem with any. But, from some of the problems g=seen on the forum, I wish they would step up their QC dept. A 5 minute inspection of every gun by a $35 an hour guy would cost about a $5 copy. 12 revolvers per hour +$60 to cover wages and bennies. The cost per gun of those rejected upon receipt by gun store or buyer has to be way over that. Return and reship cost of just 1 gun would cover at least 10 guns. I did not factor repair cost as with good QC dept that would happen before original distribution. Then there is the all important value of product reputation.

Actually wouldn't take 5 minutes.
Look the gun over, dry fire it on all chambers while aiming at a dot on wall to check appearance of sights, swing out cylinder, look down barrel with light in frame, then look in each chamber. Look at forcing cone. Close up, try a .003 feeler gauge for a GO and a .009 for a NO GO. If rejected attach a tag with check mark in the failed spot and sent to rework.

Guns like the ops with cosmetic fails could be either sold at a discount with or repaired. If sold at a discount, a mark could be placed on them to designate that. But, the factory could change out that barrel pretty fast.

 

[Bill Lear]

So it's looking like "CZ Colt" is doing their new revolvers right while "Safe-T-Hammer Smith & Wesson" needs some serious oversight!