610 - very difficult to open cylinder....

sjmjax

sjmjax

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10mm model 610.
I’ve had this gun a long time but rarely shoot it. Not sure if it’s always been difficult or a recent development. Rounds fired in it mild to mid-range 10mm loads.

Releasing the cylinder takes a huculean effort. Have to use a piece of wood to push the cylinder release forward to open the cylinder. Here’s what I’ve checked. What have I missed?

Gun is throughly cleaned.
Cylinder release works freely and pin flush with recoil shield.
No burrs or displaced metal around the hole.
No drag marks on recoil shield except where the spring pin drags.
Cylinder spring pin works fine but seems a bit stiffer than most.
No cylinder to barrel gap issues.
Closed cylinder revolves normally without evidence of drag or binding.

I have quite a few S&W revolvers. Never seen one this difficult to open. What have I overlooked?

Thanks for your input!
 
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First the obvious. Try what Richardson said above.

Is the front latch working OK? They sometimes get crud in them. With cylinder open press on center pin with some hard, flat object then try the same thing with a few of your other S&Ws. Is the force required similar? It is possible the rod is a tad too short and the front latch is not disengaging. When you push on it from the front with the cylinder open does it go forward enough to fully disengage the front latch?

May be time to disassemble cyl assembly and clean the crud out of everything. Remember it has a reverse thread.

The mechanism isn't that complicated. At some point the cause will reveal itself.
 
Thanks for the suggestions.
The ejector rod appears to be fully screwed in.

The center pin does take noticeable more effort to push in than most other revolvers. But isn’t extreme. Shouldn’t be that difficult to overcome with the thumb release.

When pushed fully flush, the pin at the opposite end is also flush or slightly extended to depress the forward locking bolt.

The forward locking bolt also works normally without excessive effort.

Everything seems rather normal but requires an exceptional amount of effort to operate once the cylinder is closed.

Will try disassembly of the cylinder next. Tried to avoid it as it seems to take a lot of effort to unscrew. Yes, I know it’s a left hand thread.
 
Have you tried cycling the action once, after it stuck. I have the same problem on one of my revolvers. Funny thing is, that if I thumb the hammer back, then let it back down, it'll open up almost normal. But a straight opening after firing the whole cylinder? Not happening. So I'm watching this thread.
 
sjmjax said:
Thanks for the suggestions.
The ejector rod appears to be fully screwed in.

The center pin does take noticeable more effort to push in than most other revolvers. But isn’t extreme. Shouldn’t be that difficult to overcome with the thumb release.

When pushed fully flush, the pin at the opposite end is also flush or slightly extended to depress the forward locking bolt.

The forward locking bolt also works normally without excessive effort.

Everything seems rather normal but requires an exceptional amount of effort to operate once the cylinder is closed.

Will try disassembly of the cylinder next. Tried to avoid it as it seems to take a lot of effort to unscrew. Yes, I know it’s a left hand thread.
Click to expand...
The easiest way to unscrew the rod is to use a 3 chuck drill. Tighten the chuck on the rod after the knurled portion and unscrew. Credit for this goes to member Bluedots if I remember the mane correctly.
 
Rich Richardson said:
The easiest way to unscrew the rod is to use a 3 chuck drill. Tighten the chuck on the rod after the knurled portion and unscrew. Credit for this goes to member Bluedots if I remember the mane correctly.
Click to expand...

And don't forget to put a couple empties in the chamber, to protect the delicate parts against the torque.
 
I had a similar problem with a 629. It turned out to be a burr at the muzzle end of the center pin. It was significant enough that it was difficult to get the pin out of the extractor rod. Once I had it out it the burr was easily rectified. I have had no problems with it since reassembly.
 
Kenneth07ex said:
Have you tried cycling the action once, after it stuck. I have the same problem on one of my revolvers. Funny thing is, that if I thumb the hammer back, then let it back down, it'll open up almost normal. But a straight opening after firing the whole cylinder? Not happening. So I'm watching this thread.
Click to expand...

Yes, I tried that both at the range where the problem became apparent and after a detailed cleaning afterwards. Cycling the action doesn’t make a difference in this case.
 
sjmjax said:
Yes, I tried that both at the range where the problem became apparent and after a detailed cleaning afterwards. Cycling the action doesn’t make a difference in this case.
Click to expand...

When you say detailed cleaning, have you taken it completely apart yet? Or just the normal type barrel/cylinder/forcing cone type cleaning? Because I could see yours being internal crud fouling up the mechanism. Mine feels like it's recoil related.
 
I've had this happen when a gun sits in the safe for awhile without being used. It's gummed up lubricate in my case. Removing the old lube and re oiling takes care of it.
 
barkbark said:
I had a similar problem with a 629. It turned out to be a burr at the muzzle end of the center pin. It was significant enough that it was difficult to get the pin out of the extractor rod. Once I had it out it the burr was easily rectified. I have had no problems with it since reassembly.
Click to expand...

I had the exact same thing happen on a M57 that was real difficult to open. I dressed down a burr on the muzzle end of the center pin and suddenly opening the cylinder took a normal amount of force.
 
ARE YOU USING MOON CLIPS? If you are lay them on a good flat counter to table top and check to see if they are bent. If so and if you are only using 10mm ammunition just stop using the moon clips, 10mm cases will headspace properly in the 610 cylinder. Yes you will have to use a pencil of something similar to clear the cylinder but it's an interim solution while you are waiting on a new set of moon clips.

Second potential cause. Your cases may not have the recess that the moon clips slide into machined too far from the base of the case. In that event you'll need to contact your ammunition maker and talk to them about this issue. Just for a test take a piece of copy paper and see if it will slide behind the case heads across to full recoil shield, it should slide in easily. If you encounter a lot of drag that is an indication of a moon clip / cartridge case mismatch or a bent moon clip.

Now for the difficult cylinder release. I suspect that is caused by the cylinder being bound up. Next time you find the cylinder release is difficult put your thumb on the middle of the cylinder and push it INTO the frame. You don't have to gorilla it, just apply some firm pressure. If the cause is the cylinder being bound up doing this should free up the cylinder release and that drag your feeling is the cylinder shaft is slightly out of line with the release pin.
 
If the extractor rod is tight and the center pin is at least flush or very slightly above flush with the end of the extractor rod then there is a good chance that there is debris of some sort between the shoulder of the bolt and the frame that prevents the bolt from going fully forward. Look at the end of the pin on the bolt where it comes through the breech when the thumbpiece is pushed forward, it should be flush with the breech,f it isn't then there is probably something inside the frame blocking the bolt.

I have a S&W that I bought new that was hard to open the first time I took it out, and the pin on the bolt wasn't flush. When I removed the sideplate I found a chip of brass blocking the bolt! When the chip was removed everything was fine. The sideplate had never been off! S&W doesn't use brass in any of it's guns, so how did that chip get inside???????
 
Alk8944 said:
If the extractor rod is tight and the center pin is at least flush or very slightly above flush with the end of the extractor rod then there is a good chance that there is debris of some sort between the shoulder of the bolt and the frame that prevents the bolt from going fully forward. Look at the end of the pin on the bolt where it comes through the breech when the thumbpiece is pushed forward, it should be flush with the breech,f it isn't then there is probably something inside the frame blocking the bolt.

I have a S&W that I bought new that was hard to open the first time I took it out, and the pin on the bolt wasn't flush. When I removed the sideplate I found a chip of brass blocking the bolt! When the chip was removed everything was fine. The sideplate had never been off! S&W doesn't use brass in any of it's guns, so how did that chip get inside???????
Click to expand...

I was thinking along the same lines. Take the thumb latch off, and make sure that their is nothing on the bolt between the side plate and the thumb screw anchor.
 
Update & questions answered.
Cliff notes: I’m baffled.

The only oddity is the spring for the center pin is stiffer than is typical in similar N-frame stainless revolvers in my collection. Can’t measure precisely but using the finger pressure technique. Not rigid or extremely stiff. Just more than other revolvers. The effort to push the cylinder release forward is out of proportion to that spring tensions.

By through cleaning, I mean removing the side plate and internal components. All cleaned, deburred, and relubed. As mentioned in original post, no issues with the cylinder release slide. Works smoothly with little effort by itself. Pin flush with the recoil plate.

Moon clips not the issue. Flat and proper fit. Problem persists with or without cartridges in place.

Cylinder and ejector disassembled. No internal issues. Other than the stiff small spring. All parts polished and free of burrs or contamination. Center rod runs true and straight. Pressure on the cylinder while operating the cylinder release has no affect.

I might try to disassemble a similar model a try switching out that spring. Otherwise I’m stumped.
 
My 610 had the same problem. Turned out that the extractor rod had backed out and a gunsmith had to fix it.

Good luck with your 610; they are fine guns.
 
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