New Bodyguards dropping mags

[gun1]

All, I did a couple searches and for some reason I am not coming up with a whole lot on the bodyguards, nor is the forum list showing more than 2 pages (back to November) to scan thru very far.

In any event, I have 2 new Bodyguards here that I've put 50 rounds through each. I have not been able to get through a whole mag (6 rounds) without loosing a mag, sometimes twice.

I did some wider Internet searching and this appears to have been an issue with these for quite some time. Earlier Bodyguards had plastic magazine latches. That appears to have been upgraded to metal - both for a "send it in for the upgrade" and a production change - somewhere round 2019.

As best I can tell, the new ones I have here are metal. I can't imagine that small tab being plastic at all on the earlier ones!

Considering these are both new and exhibit the exact same behavior - does anyone have any thoughts on how to go about this?

What I don't want to do is end up in a cycle of sending these back to S&W for 4-5 rounds over the next 8 months with them burning rounds thru them to "test", all the while wearing out my pistols while I don't have them here where I need them.

Edit - to add to this - after having the 1st one acting up so much I paid attention to my grip and where the mag release was so as to not hit it. I am fairly certain the issue is not the mag release getting bumped with the recoil. Though, I will say - the grip on the Bodyguards is so small for me I have trouble holding it compared to my other pistols. When I was testing the 2nd one, again, I intentionally changed my grip so as to clear the mag release as my concern was the mechanics of the pistol and not training for shooting it accurately. The same mag issue was still present.

 

[gunny4053]

As painful as this sounds, I think you have three basic options. Work with them and see if it works itself out. Call S&W and have them figure out the fix. Call the ball right now and send them down the road.

I'd send them to S&W and give them the opportunity to make it right. All the other two options do is frustrate you further and cloud your view of any S&W product. They ain't all bad.

 

[gun1]

All the other two options do is frustrate you further and cloud your view of any S&W product. They ain't all bad.

Of the 7 S&W's I have, the 2 Bodyguards are the first ones I've had an issue with that I feel needs addressed.

I went S&W straight off the bat many years ago because they were known quality guns and of the other options out there (namely Glock at the time) I liked the form-factor of the S&W's. My 1st pistol of theirs was an M&P 40 compact. The 3x levels of backstrap insert sizes really made an impression on me. That allowed customizing the grip to my hand, none of the other options out there were like that. In any event, I have pretty much stuck to S&W since. They have generally been affordable, quality, reliable, fun guns.

I will say I wish the M&P22 I have was a genuine S&W and not a Walther. Though, even Walther did a good job with it - just a totally different upper.

 

[Jeppo]

Do you have any issues with the slide locking back on empty magazines?

 

[gun1]

Do you have any issues with the slide locking back on empty magazines?

That is a good question. I didn't pay much attention. It at least didn't stand out to me as being an issue. I was focused on the mag drop.

This mag drop issue also goes to proof the concept that it should be common knowledge to run any new gun through its paces before you carry it as a self defense option.

I may have come up with a solution. Give me a bit and I'll document it in the next post.

 

[Brian Parrish]

Try the Semi-Auto Forum

There are a lot of interesting threads about the old Bodyguard on the semi-automatic forum. You may note that the new M&P version has not had the same problems as the earlier version.

 

[gun1]

So here is what I came up with. I have not tested this with firing to see if it makes as big of a difference as I think it will, however I am pretty sure it will work. I am at least on track to a resolution - whether or not I have enough of a tweak to resolve the issue completely is TBD.

And I can not upload pictures... So there goes 80% of what I just documented. I don't have a host site to pull a URL to a picture from, so I am out of luck. You're just going to have to bear with me on the text to describe then.

If you look at a magazine for the Bodyguard vs the Shield 380 EZ you will note that there is a bulge around where the magazine catch latch hooks the mag on the Shield 380 EZ. On the Bodyguard the mag is flush.

The Bodyguard mag measures .438" wide on the front where the mag catch notches are.

The clearance in the grip on the gun is .483"

Note that there are 2x "rails" on each side of the inside of the mag slot in the gun grip that tighten up the clearance. Where the mag catch latch is happens to be in front of the tightening rails.

This clearance area of the mag slot measures the .483".

Since the mag catch latch is only on one side, only half of the dimensions matter. Half of the mag width is .219", half of the mag slot in the gun is .2415". That leaves a .0225" clearance.

I used a punch and a ball peen hammer to peen the mag catch where the latch is by right at .022". That is enough to notice the bulge, but it is not enough to make the mag going in and out any more difficult. The mag still rocks around with plenty of clearance.

The question is if the extra .022" is enough for the latch to hang on to the mag. I think it will, but I will be able to give a better update once I get a chance to run some rounds through it.

There is also more room to go further with the flaring of the mag. What I don't want to do is flair it so much now that the mag is restricted from going in and out much. However, if I have the same drop issue I have room to go further on the flair to attempt to correct it.

 

[gun1]

There are a lot of interesting threads about the old Bodyguard on the semi-automatic forum. You may note that the new M&P version has not had the same problems as the earlier version.

I think they are good guns and that S&W generally has a quality product. If I can overcome the mag drop these will be great.

 

[LVSteve]

You can post picture to be hosted by this site from your computer. Just make sure you are in the Advanced posting mode and scroll down to the button that says "Manage Attachments". There are restrictions on file size in terms of pixels and Bytes, so knowing how to edit digital pictures is a must.

 

[gun1]

Let me see if the pictures work through attachments here...

See the "Shield 380 EZ Mag Example" for what I was getting at with the bulges for the mag latch to catch.

The "Flaired latch catch" image is the Bodyguard 380 mag with the flairing. The other side is flush so you can get an idea of what it was before by looking at the other side. You can also see the flairing is slight, but as I stated before - to the side it is right at about .022" wider now.

See the "Punch position" image to see how the punch is fit through the opposite mag catch hole. I had the mag on the corner of a wood block so it was sitting flush (not elevated on the foot of the mag - the whole side was resting on the wood block) then hammered on the punch incrementally. It did take, what I would describe, as stiff blows to get enough force to accomplish the flaring. Part of that was the wood needed to be deformed underneath, not just the metal of the mag giving way.

As always, measure as you go. I only got a couple thousandths the first few tries before I started hitting harder.

 

[gun1]

There is also more room to go further with the flaring of the mag. What I don't want to do is flair it so much now that the mag is restricted from going in and out much. However, if I have the same drop issue I have room to go further on the flair to attempt to correct it.

Another thought - something I am not sure on is how much clearance there is of the mag catch latch when it is open. I could figure a way to measure the amount of movement in the release button. However, that does not take in to account the clearance of the mag to the latch.

Why this is important is if the flairing goes too far it is conceivable the release mechanism may not have enough throw to get over the flaired catch on the mag.

So there are 2 cautions to the attempt here - 1. The clearance of the mag to the side of the slot in the gun handle. 2. The clearance of the latch when attempting to release the mag.

Since the flairing is only able to be done in very small increments Id say it would be pretty easy to find where the flairing would get to be too much, in which case you could tap it back down a few thousandths.

 

[TM44]

Have you tried to shoot it one handed, both weak and strong to see if might be your grip? Has anyone else shot it with the same issue? I'd hesitate to modify the gun before letting Smith look at it. Smith CS makes it pretty painless to return for service.

 

[oldiegoldie]

you might have someone else shoot them to see if they get same results. i'm in TM44 camp....send it to Smith before tinkering with it. why spend your time trying to fix a new product with a good warranty?

 

[gun1]

I'd hesitate to modify the gun before letting Smith look at it. Smith CS makes it pretty painless to return for service.

i'm in TM44 camp....send it to Smith before tinkering with it. why spend your time trying to fix a new product with a good warranty?

For clarity - I have not touched the guns as far as any tweaks go. The only things I've tweaked are magazines - which are not part of the function of the "gun" in that without a specific one installed all the time it won't function. They are interchangeable.

I do agree, though, that tweaking the "gun" itself is best left to S&W or a gunsmith. Beyond field stripping for cleaning I'd have a gunsmith look at it and give some input or have them do repairs/adjustments. However, as far as I know the type of issue the mag drop is - from some of the older information I found from 2019 or earlier with the plastic mag catch latches and the upgrades - due to the parts involved it would have to go back to S&W for the fix/swap.

We'll see how I get along with the flaired mags on the next outing.

On a side note - I did the rest of the one set of mags tonight. I had one that came out to .030", instead of the .022". So I tested it to see how it fit. It was slightly tighter at the opening to the mag slot in the grip and the catch latch was a bit "stiffer". However, the release worked perfectly. So I went ahead and increased the flairs to .030" or so. We'll see how it goes.

 

[gun1]

Update after some range time tonight -

The flair on the mag catches works like a champ. That did just the trick.

In comparison with the last time with stock mags where they were dropping at least once every mag, sometimes multiple drops - I went to no drops at all.

I am satisfied with the results. Though, I would have preferred to not have to do the tweak at all - IE - if the set up came from the factory as solid as it is now. If they can stamp the Shield 380 EZ mags with the bulged mag catches it shouldn't be very hard to add some extra flair to the Bodyguard mags.

 

[paynterf]

Thanks for a very timely set of posts regarding mag drops. I just recently started having trouble with this issue myself, and was going through the same mental process to figure out the problem when I ran across this post. I'll be flaring my mags tonight!

 

[Old cop]

Have you tried shooting left handed? As a southpaw this is a problem I’ve never experienced.

 

[paynterf]

As an alternative to flaring out the side of the mag to more fully engage the mag catch, I 3D printed a semi-flexible wrap-around piece that covers the *other side* of the mag catch mechanism. When the mag drop button is depressed, the other end of that mechanism sticks out noticeably from the surface of the handle, so I reasoned that applying some pressure to that end of the mag drop mechanism might stop mag drop events, and this turned out to be the case. Before applying this method, I couldn't get through a full mag on either of my mags without a drop. Afterwards I went through about five mags on both, with no drops. Here are a couple of photos showing the 3D printed part. I went through 5 iterations on the shape of the 'pad' on the non-button side before arriving at the shape shown in the photo. I shoot left-handed, and this shape fits nicely under my left thumb, which in turn is partially under my right thumb in my typical two-handed grip. I don't know how well this would work for a right-handed shooter, but it certainly worked for me. YMMV

 

[Southview]

Just sent mine in for repairs. I had the plastic mag button still. ��

 

[cpace411]

I do not know if this might help over the years I have gotten a few guns from my son who bought them used - all with different problems - one was an original colt mustang - every time I shot the dang thing the mag would drop - had to really go back in the forums to find problem - years worth - turned out problem was the mag spring - replaced it all worked fine - I have 2 sons - we all have one of the original M&P bodyguard's - have shoot them a lot over the years with no problems - Good Luck