Plateable epoxy?

[9245]

I am trying to find a way to repair a saw cut some moron left across the breach face of my 38 safety hammerless, it doesn’t seem deep enough to be a safety issue but it is ugly as sin and I can’t weld. I was thinking of using JB weld but that would not work because (obviously) this is going to require me to re nickel plate the whole thing and JB weld is not conductive. Is there a similar product to JB weld that is able to be nickel plated? Or do I have to just use JB and then paint over it with conductive silver circuit board paint?

The saw cut in question:

 

[Muley Gil]

I would call around to different machine shops. There is bound to be someone who can weld that cut.

 

[9245]

I would call around to different machine shops. There is bound to be someone who can weld that cut.

The issue with that is that the cost to have that done would likely exceed the value of the revolver.

 

[Protocall_Design]

With that much nickel gone, I wouldn't worry about plating. Use JB weld with stainless steel filler and call it done.

 

[9245]

With that much nickel gone, I wouldn't worry about plating. Use JB weld with stainless steel filler and call it done.

That’s what I’m saying though, I’m considering re plating it.

 

[Matt_X]

I'm not a gunsmith but I'm not aware of any plating process that will attach to both epoxy and steel. Metal plating is based on the molecular affinity of the metals - for example copper to steel and then chrome to copper for high quality chromed parts. Vacuum plating is used for plastics, such as chrome to ABS, but don't think it would work for this purpose.


So if this is a project you want todo because you like the challenge or whatever, I think you will need to explore the welding options. That's pretty fine work, and some grinding will be needed. My suggestion is websearch 'micro-welding' and/or if you know of jewlers who do fine welding. Might want to insert a piece of steel like an inlay, and then tack it.
Just throwing ideas out.

 

[dfariswheel]

Here's a source for micro welding. He has an excellent reputation for gun work.
No idea on cost, you'll have to contact him and ask...........

Home

Due to vibration I doubt that any epoxy will stay put.
Due to the apparent depth, I'd be concerned that the frame will stress crack from flexing when fired.

 

[handejector]

Is this gun sentimental? I ask because some guns are just not worth fixing unless they have sentimental value.

 

[9245]

Is this gun sentimental? I ask because some guns are just not worth fixing unless they have sentimental value.

No, it was just cheap and interesting and I thought it would make a nice project.

 

[AlHunt]

No, it was just cheap and interesting and I thought it would make a nice project.

I completely understand doing projects just for the satisfaction of fixing it.

Maybe you can find another gun that needs the good parts from that one.

Maybe one of the metallurgy experts here will happen by and talk about the heat implications of welding in that area. I also wonder if you'd have any luck making a filler piece and silver soldering it in. Silver solder melts below 800F. I've joined copper to stainless but that was small fittings. You have a lot more mass there.

All that said, I hope nobody ever invents platable epoxy. I shudder to think of the atrocities we'll see committed ..

 

[9245]

I completely understand doing projects just for the satisfaction of fixing it.

Maybe you can find another gun that needs the good parts from that one.

Maybe one of the metallurgy experts here will happen by and talk about the heat implications of welding in that area. I also wonder if you'd have any luck making a filler piece and silver soldering it in. Silver solder melts below 800F. I've joined copper to stainless but that was small fittings. You have a lot more mass there.

All that said, I hope nobody ever invents platable epoxy. I shudder to think of the atrocities we'll see committed ..

Maybe just fill it with silver solder?

 

[2152hq]

Is that a bushing around the firing pin with it's own Spanner slots?

If it is, remove that first, then you have a rough Saw Cut on each side to repair.

You can square up each of the cuts with some careful file work. Then fit a separate piece of steel into each one.
A tight fit to the edges, leave it high for fitting it back down.

Then just use the newer Tin/Silver soft solder (most call that Silver Solder now). The 'No Lead' is to satisfy the Green Agenda
It melts at around 400F and will remain bright white much like the nickle plating.
It works well and is as strong if not a bit stronger than Lead/Tin soft solder.

After soldering, file the fitted and soldered into place pieces down to the breech face. Plus any other contour they may need fitting.
Polish them as needed. Leave grit marks to mimic orig tool & machine marks on the breech face.

The steel you use doesn't need to be anything special. Low Carbon steel is fine. Common Cold Rolled Steel.
A large enough dia common nail will do if you can file the needed shape from it. Leave it long enough to hand onto while shaping and fitting. Clip off the excess once it's soldered.

If you want the Solder lines , however thin and small, to turn grey over time,,use the older Lead/Tin soft solder. It oxidizes and turns dull grey, almost black unlike the Tin/Silver stuff above which 'Stays Brite' (A brand name of one of them BTW)

Common plumbers solder . They are 50/50 or 60/40 Lead/tin % generally but it doesn't make a lot of difference which you use.

The flux for soldering with either of these I use is paste flux sold at the DIY store. Again nothing special, it's for plumbing jobs mostly but works for steel just fine.

If the Firing Pin Bushing won't budge and remove itself,, then leave it in place and just do the same thing and make 2 separate filler splices as above.
But just lay them in so they come up to and touch the edge of the bushing and leave the Spanner Slots clear in the bushing itself.
The slots will be a little harder to clean up with files this way as you can't work straight across the face with the bushing in place.

Some filing, sawing fitting, soldering, more filing and fitting. Then polishing. A bit of Antique finish to top it off....and you're done.
Hang it on Wall and call your friends over.
Raise a Glass

 

[9245]

Is that a bushing around the firing pin with it's own Spanner slots?

If it is, remove that first, then you have a rough Saw Cut on each side to repair.

You can square up each of the cuts with some careful file work. Then fit a separate piece of steel into each one.
A tight fit to the edges, leave it high for fitting it back down.

Then just use the newer Tin/Silver soft solder (most call that Silver Solder now). The 'No Lead' is to satisfy the Green Agenda
It melts at around 400F and will remain bright white much like the nickle plating.
It works well and is as strong if not a bit stronger than Lead/Tin soft solder.

After soldering, file the fitted and soldered into place pieces down to the breech face. Plus any other contour they may need fitting.
Polish them as needed. Leave grit marks to mimic orig tool & machine marks on the breech face.

The steel you use doesn't need to be anything special. Low Carbon steel is fine. Common Cold Rolled Steel.
A large enough dia common nail will do if you can file the needed shape from it. Leave it long enough to hand onto while shaping and fitting. Clip off the excess once it's soldered.

If you want the Solder lines , however thin and small, to turn grey over time,,use the older Lead/Tin soft solder. It oxidizes and turns dull grey, almost black unlike the Tin/Silver stuff above which 'Stays Brite' (A brand name of one of them BTW)

Common plumbers solder . They are 50/50 or 60/40 Lead/tin % generally but it doesn't make a lot of difference which you use.

The flux for soldering with either of these I use is paste flux sold at the DIY store. Again nothing special, it's for plumbing jobs mostly but works for steel just fine.

If the Firing Pin Bushing won't budge and remove itself,, then leave it in place and just do the same thing and make 2 separate filler splices as above.
But just lay them in so they come up to and touch the edge of the bushing and leave the Spanner Slots clear in the bushing itself.
The slots will be a little harder to clean up with files this way as you can't work straight across the face with the bushing in place.

Some filing, sawing fitting, soldering, more filing and fitting. Then polishing. A bit of Antique finish to top it off....and you're done.
Hang it on Wall and call your friends over.
Raise a Glass

It is a separate bushing, it is held in place by a pin, not a spannee slot, so why Bubba did this with a saw is beyond me. I have ordered a replacement part. It needed to come out anyway because the firing pin spring is either broken or missing. The firing pin is present, but I have no idea what condition the rest of it is in until I take it out.

The cut is not too deep, would filling it 100% with solder work just to simplify it? Also, can solder just be plated over?

 

[2152hq]

You can fill the damage with the Tin/Silver soft solder and that can be plated over. The two metals that make up it's alloy will each by themselves accept plating.
It melts and flows at around 400f so there's not a lot of chance of damage to the surrounding metal or finish.

Lead/Tin soft solder will sometimes accept plating, sometimesnot. Probably depends on the amt of Tin in the alloy. I've had it plate over when using one of the simple Brush plater outfits.
But with the Tin/Silver stuff around,,I'd use that now.

High Temp Silver Solder (what was what we called 'Silver Solder') melts and flows at a much higher temp..in the 1000F + range. So you are into a red heat for the base metal and then lots of refinishing.
The only plus is that it too will accept plating as a general rule.
I wouldn't go with that here.

Micro Welding is a big thing now. Done with Laser process and more precise than TIG and excellent at keeping the heat in a very contained area around the weld itself.
You could go that route with an outside expert. There are a couple that are FFL licensed and do 'gun work'.
Many don't want anything to do with a firearm, be it an antique or not.

 

[glowe]

I would not bother with the epoxy. There are at least two major issues involved with what you are trying to do. First is the firing pin and is held in place by the cross pin in the frame. The circle around the firing pin is a bushing that holds the firing pin and spring. If the spring or firing pin breaks, it has to be removed from the front. Anything you use to fill that mess will prevent one from ever replacing either the pin or spring.

The second issue is worse. The rear of the cylinder is wobbling around in the recoil shield indent, probably due to a loose or worn latch or barrel hinge. It has worn badly where the rear pin in the ejector star locks into place in the recoil shield. I believe the combination of the missing steel and the worn indent in the recoil shield means that there is a lot more parts worn out.

 

[DWalt]

Is this gun sentimental? I ask because some guns are just not worth fixing unless they have sentimental value.

And this seems like one of them.

 

[9245]

I would not bother with the epoxy. There are at least two major issues involved with what you are trying to do. First is the firing pin and is held in place by the cross pin in the frame. The circle around the firing pin is a bushing that holds the firing pin and spring. If the spring or firing pin breaks, it has to be removed from the front. Anything you use to fill that mess will prevent one from ever replacing either the pin or spring.

The second issue is worse. The rear of the cylinder is wobbling around in the recoil shield indent, probably due to a loose or worn latch or barrel hinge. It has worn badly where the rear pin in the ejector star locks into place in the recoil shield. I believe the combination of the missing steel and the worn indent in the recoil shield means that there is a lot more parts worn out.

Thanks for blowing up and brightening that picture.

The lockup feels tight to me and I’m not really getting any cylinder jiggle that I can feel, do you think that may have been fixed in the past?

I have already ordered a new firing pin bushing, that part will be completely replaced. Also the firing pin spring actually is already bad, or missing, I’m not sure yet, because there is no tension at all on the pin, when it is pointed down the pin just comes out of the hole then falls back in when it is pointed up. I also ordered a new firing pin spring. So either way that bushing needs to come out do I might as well replace it.

 

[9245]

Silver Solder seems to have done the trick.