Backup heat. Not just for preppers any more

[Bald1]

Well, sure I would love to burn hardwood, but soft is what is available. It's 100 miles to the good stuff. Cost plus hauling has not yet outweighed the million acres of soft stuff outside my door.

BTW, how is the hardwood on chains? I usually put 4 strokes of a file on my sharp Stihl (yellow) chains at each fill up on gas and throw inch long chips. However, I'm really only good for two tank's full, plus loading and unloading, per day. That's about a cord, but then there is the splitting (electric is fantastic) and stacking. Like I said, a good summer's work. If you have any free hard stuff available within range, please let me know.

That’s why I asked. I’ve been to Colorado 3 times and it looked like mostly evergreens. I’m lucky enough to have all the hardwood I want from blow downs. This yr I’ll be splitting Red Oak for next season. Currently I’m burning Ash. I use a 20” and 18” Echo. If I keep chain out of the dirt it’s not that bad. Problem up here is the Emerald Ash Borer. It’s wiping out all the Ash in some areas. Standing dead wood everywhere. Logging companies are cutting it as quick as they can before it dies. My neighbor is in the process of having $50k worth of Ash harvested. He gets a pay day and I get all the tree tops I want.

 

[StrawHat]

…Cost plus hauling has not yet outweighed the million acres of soft stuff outside my door…

If you own a million acres, you must have that 100 mile hardwood on your property.

Kevin

 

[LVSteve]

The current energy infrastructure in much of the Western world was built 50+ years ago and is sized for a given population and extremes of climate. If either of those variables changes, any slack in the system can be quickly eliminated leading to problems with supply.

Over the last 50 years our population in many parts of the country has probably doubled, and the extremes of weather we experience now (whatever the cause) are greater and more frequent. This combination will overtax the energy infrastructure leading to messages like those in the OP or complete failure as we saw in Texas a couple of years back.

Here in Vegas, they have been digging up all manner of major roads to upgrade the electricity grid because it could no longer cope with the added load created by explosive growth. In our case, the increase in load came quickly and was obvious, so action has been taken.

In other parts of the country the change has been more gradual, and the need for improvement has sneaked up on those areas. One good blast of bad weather and the weakness is exposed. How do you fix it? Billions in upgrades to the energy production, its distribution systems, and grants to help upgrade homes with better insulation and windows. That money has to come from other spending, unless you are prepared to take a large increase in taxes. Choose your poison when voting.

 

[mtgianni]

Both of the above named utilities are served with 2 42" natural gas pipelines. Banning compressor problems the inability to get product to consumers would be due to internal supply distribution problems rather than a lack of product.

 

[Krogen]

Both of the above named utilities are served with 2 42" natural gas pipelines. Banning compressor problems the inability to get product to consumers would be due to internal supply distribution problems rather than a lack of product.

The Seattle Times reported the natural gas difficulty was due to an underground storage facility outage. To my thinking, this is exactly what you suggested.

 

[Inusuit]

Here's what I depend on. Electric baseboard is for backup Even though I am "remote" we seldom lose power for more than a few minutes, or once every couple of years eight hours maximum. Lines are all underground.

I use about 8 cords of pine and spruce each year. At 70, this is half a summer's endeavor, but I'm still good. I did the stonework on the fireplace about 40 years ago. There are 30+ tons on the house, all gathered by my parents and me. I love this place!

For what it's worth, we've gotten 16" snow in the last two days with more on the way. Thankfully, temps are moderate compared to what much of the country is receiving.

Nice to see a hearth as messy as mine. In SE Wyoming, my choices are beetle kill pine or cottonwood. Unless I get lucky with a tree removal company. I have never seen legitimate hardwoods for sale here.

In addition to our stove, we have 35 solar panels and solar hot water pre-heat. And battery storage. Our electric bill usually includes a rebate or at most, a charge under $20 for the month. Propane furnace comes on infrequently. As when we had some minus 20 temps this last week.

 

[oldbrownhat]

...In addition to our stove, we have 35 solar panels and solar hot water pre-heat. And battery storage. Our electric bill usually includes a rebate or at most, a charge under $20 for the month. Propane furnace comes on infrequently. As when we had some minus 20 temps this last week.

This sounds like a very practical setup. What's the size of your battery bank?

When I was planning this place I remember thinking about evacuated-tube solar water heating (or pre-heating) but I can't remember how I was going to integrate it into the rest of the system.

 

[Krogen]

In addition to our stove, we have 35 solar panels and solar hot water pre-heat. And battery storage. Our electric bill usually includes a rebate or at most, a charge under $20 for the month. Propane furnace comes on infrequently. As when we had some minus 20 temps this last week.

When I was planning this place I remember thinking about evacuated-tube solar water heating (or pre-heating) but I can't remember how I was going to integrate it into the rest of the system.

I'm interested in your thoughts. This place is heated by a gas-fired boiler and Runtal radiators. I have wondered how I might use solar panels to supplement the boiler. I don't see what sort of heat exchanger is needed to combine solar energy with the 100F-180F boiler water. Does one use electric solar panels feeding an electric water heat system? While I'm a do-it-yourselfer, I recognize the need for expert help on the issue. I'd just like to be informed so I can second-guess the experts.

 

[oldbrownhat]

I'm interested in your thoughts. This place is heated by a gas-fired boiler and Runtal radiators. I have wondered how I might use solar panels to supplement the boiler. I don't see what sort of heat exchanger is needed to combine solar energy with the 100F-180F boiler water. Does one use electric solar panels feeding an electric water heat system? While I'm a do-it-yourselfer, I recognize the need for expert help on the issue. I'd just like to be informed so I can second-guess the experts.

That's definitely a question for Inusuit. I'm curious, too, but just because I'm curious ("Mind Like a Lint Brush Syndrome") I've heard that those Rinnai boilers are really good, and also Runtal. Good gear

As to HW rads, when I built this place I had the plumbers install a Viessmann condensing boiler. But they knew bupkis about condensing boilers and aside from some slightly dodgy installation, they didn't know that in order to take advantage of the condensing feature, the return water temp has to be (well) below 130ºF. They put in standard high-temp. low-profile baseboards which do meet the heat loss calculation requirement ...at 170º. Plus they plumbed them in in series, with each unit feeding the subsequent one, so the inlet water temp. to each was slightly lower along the line! They should have been plumbed in with a common inlet feed line and each unit fed from a "tee" so that each gets the same water temperature. The return water line should be plumbed the same way.

So next summer I'm getting my plumber to replace the boiler with a new Viessmann - even though the current one is probably good a for a few more years - as well as replacing the baseboards with proper low-temp. ones which will provide the necessary BTUs at an inlet temperature of about 130º, which will result in a return temperature to the boiler of around 110-115º, which will take advantage of the condensing feature. I won't get maximum efficiency (which needs a return temp. around 85-90º, only achievable with in-floor radiant heating running at about 100ºF) but much better than what I'm getting now. It's hard to find suitable radiators, but the Slant Fin 350 Series dual-tube commercial units should do it. Bosch/Buderus also have some fine-looking flat-panel convective rads (Series 20 & 21) but they're unavailable here as the Bosch boiler division has zero representation in Canada.

Fortunately I only need to do this for the main floor "great room" as the house is open plan and has 6 radiators. It will be expensive, but I don't like systems that don't work as they're supposed to! Plus I plan to be here for a few more years so its a long-term investment.

 

[ACORN]

I’m decidedly low tech.
I’ve got 2 kerosene heaters, 1 10000 btu and 1 23000 btu. and 30 gallon of kero.
My backup power is a 9500 watt continuous dual fuel generator and 4 20lb propane tanks.
Hopefully enough.

 

[biku324]

When the world ends it will not be nuclear war or natural disaster; bad management is what will kill us all.

 

[WR Moore]

BTW, how is the hardwood on chains? I usually put 4 strokes of a file on my sharp Stihl (yellow) chains at each fill up on gas and throw inch long chips.

Green hardwood isn't too bad on the chains. Cut down & seasoned or seasoned dead doesn't cut as easy. A lot depends upon just how good you are with the file.

 

[Bald1]

Green hardwood isn't too bad on the chains. Cut down & seasoned or seasoned dead doesn't cut as easy. A lot depends upon just how good you are with the file.

This^^^^^^^^^^ while I am diligent about keeping half dozen sharp chains on hand for my 2 saws I don’t claim to be the best sharpener. I have a Harbor Freight electric sharpener but have better luck doing it manually with a file and guide.