Rough 1911, what to do

[walnutred]

A friend is sorting through his late fathers stuff and I agreed to help him move some firearms. His father bought storage pods at auction before that was made popular on TV. Most are single barrel 22s and shotguns but there is a pair of Colt 1911s, both 1918 dated and US marked. One still has the two toned magazine.

Unfortunately a lot of the Colt commercial blue has been replaced by rust from them setting in storage for many years. I don't want to over clean them, I just want to stabilize them in hopes of finding new owners.

Any suggestions? I have an old H&R in similar condition that I'm thinking of trying electrolysis cleaning. If it works I may try the Colts. Does anyone have experience with this method?

 

[Greyman50]

Disassemble and soak in Kroil for few weeks. Use piece of burlap to wipe parts and see how bad it is.

 

[TIMETRIPPER]

First thing to do is to take off the grips and soak the gun n a tub of Ed's Red for a couple of days. Then let them drip dry on an old towel. That will stop the rust as well as clean and lube them. Don't emmerse the stock panels.
Ed's Red is made of equal parts acetone, mineral spirits, kerosene and automatic transmission fluid. I make a gallon batch at a time and store it in a metal container. It also is a good substitute for Hoppes #9. Google it for more info. Afterwards you can lightly clean the surfaces with copper Chore Boy pads soaked in the Ed's Red. Wear gloves.
I've doe this with many beatup old revolvers in the past and it works well. It won't restore the original finish but it will stop and remove any rust.

John

 

[yeti]

I'd go with a Kroil soak followed by a copper brush / Chore Boy (real ones!) / bronze wool. Soak for several hours and use your choice of the above. When progress ceases while using very modest pressure, stop and return it to the Kroil bath for a few more hours and come back to it later. This may take several days, but don't force it.

 

[offrdmania]

Remove the grips first. Those you can hand clean. Id drop in a pan of Kroil for a little bit (Hours or days) and then use a nylon brush. Then I would disassemble and clean each part with Dawn dish soap to dislodge anything that came off, also removing the kroil. Then I would drop all of the parts into an ultrasonic cleaner with Simple Green Extreme aircraft cleaner because it will not harm whatever finish is left.
The collector value will be in how much of that original finish remains.

 

[gwpercle]

One of the best treatments for rust on handguns is a long soaking in Kerosene , this softens the rust and allows it to be gently removed with light 0000 steel wool rubbing ... ( 0000copper wool is best , if you got it )
steel wool will remove blue if you rub too hard and too long , so watch it . Scrubbing with an old tooth brush is also safe .

After the kerosene soak and red rust removal there is a gray coating left on the metal ... sorta like a crude , poor man's blue
... and it seems to inhibit further rusting .
Kerosene is an oil and an old school soaking agent for red rust ...it also seems to neutralize the red rust and leave a protective "coating" on the metal ...plus it is safe ! I have soaked rusty gun parts from three to six months with no ill effects ! It's also cheap ... look at wally Mart K-1 Kerosene is sold as lamp oil and heater fuel and it's also in the paint section of the store .

I tend to remove rust , maybe even touch up with cold blue , but leave the old war Horses as they are ... I like Character !
Gary

 

[walnutred]

Thanks for the suggestions. I pick them up Tuesday and will post before and after pictures, along with the cleaning method I end up using.

 

[darg]

If you have brown rust on it you need to minimize the loss of material during rust removal. First step is to fully strip the gun of all parts. Assess what might needs to be replaced but let's hope it's not too bad. Next is degreasing it with either a special degreaser or a lot of dish soap. Do NOT dry when done, have a large stainless pot of DI water boiling and boil all metal parts. During this boiling step brown rust still in good contact with the main part will slowly convert into black rust which A) reduces size of the rust particles and B) removes what is too lose to get converted and back into the surface.
This basically does a blueing job of brown rust to black rust and removes what can't be rescued.
Dump parts afterwards into either Kerosene, gasoline or any specific water displacement media.
Blow dry to remove the displacement media and oil well.
If you just throw the gun in Kroil or other oil stuff is to cover the existing brown rust with oil and it rusts under that deeper into the surface, leading to accelerated pitting!!!

 

[lamarw]

I have used the electrolysis method with good results. Several years ago I acquired a bunch of parts to Ithaca Model 37 shotgun parts. It consisted of three receivers, three barrels, and many other parts. A majority of the larger components were covered in light surface rust. Below are a couple pictures of the actual experience. It will effectively remove the surface rust but will not help with pitting.

 

[LVSteve]

Diesel? Kerosene. Y'all must have big properties or neighbors with no sense of smell. Some good suggestions just the same. I have this Czech made Brazilian 08/34 short rifle that obviously spent a great deal of time in the jungle. Looking at some of the pitting, I cannot decide whether to improve its looks and leave it a wall-hanger or just part it out.

 

[jsfricks]

Around 1918 was some of the worst finishes Colt was putting on the 1911. They were just trying to get them out for the war. They are well known for flaking off over the years. Too much cleaning may help in removing the rest of the finish. I have a 1918 Remington UMC 1911 with the same black finish with flaking but still around 90% of finish. When these are found they're rarely found with a lot of finish left. The suggestions of a Kroil soak is good. I usually follow with Fine Bronze wool while still wet with Kroil but with these old black finishes I'd go gentle. Also while wet, you can flake rust specks off with an old copper penny. But under the flake with be bare metal, but it'll look better than the rust specks.

 

[AlHunt]

Diesel? Kerosene. Y'all must have big properties or neighbors with no sense of smell. Some good suggestions just the same. I have this Czech made Brazilian 08/34 short rifle that obviously spent a great deal of time in the jungle. Looking at some of the pitting, I cannot decide whether to improve its looks and leave it a wall-hanger or just part it out.

I'm going to suggest doing the cleanup. Then if you happen into something you'd like to restore, you'll have some experience.

Oh, and buy a few acres somewhere. Nothing like a little elbow room.

 

[imakmst]

By the way, congrats on having a pair of Colt 1918 dated 1911s

wow

 

[walnutred]

By the way, congrats on having a pair of Colt 1918 dated 1911s

wow

I wish they were mine! Like I said, I'm helping a friend out who is not a gun guy.

 

[AJ]

Cleaning in whatever solution you decide on should be slowly and gently.

 

[kev74]

If you have brown rust on it you need to minimize the loss of material during rust removal. First step is to fully strip the gun of all parts. Assess what might needs to be replaced but let's hope it's not too bad. Next is degreasing it with either a special degreaser or a lot of dish soap. Do NOT dry when done, have a large stainless pot of DI water boiling and boil all metal parts. During this boiling step brown rust still in good contact with the main part will slowly convert into black rust which A) reduces size of the rust particles and B) removes what is too lose to get converted and back into the surface.
This basically does a blueing job of brown rust to black rust and removes what can't be rescued.
Dump parts afterwards into either Kerosene, gasoline or any specific water displacement media.
Blow dry to remove the displacement media and oil well.
If you just throw the gun in Kroil or other oil stuff is to cover the existing brown rust with oil and it rusts under that deeper into the surface, leading to accelerated pitting!!!

This is the way to do it. The results can be amazing.

Take a look at Mark Novak's videos on rust conversion on youtube.

 

[BB57]

As JSFricks notes the "Black Army" finish was generally not as durable as Colt's regular blued finish, but it was the same charcoal blue process Colt used on its earlier "brushed blue" 1911s made from mid 1917 to May 1918 from around serial number 170,000 to around 310,000-350,000.

The Back Army finish was used from May 1918 through March 1919 on about 250,000 1911 pistols.

What made the Black Army finish pistols different was that Colt skipped the final step in the polishing process to speed up production. At the time they also degreased them using hot gasoline. The rougher surface probably made it more difficult to remove contaminants which affected how well the bluing adhered to the surface.

 

[jeffrefrig]

I wish they were mine! Like I said, I'm helping a friend out who is not a gun buy.

If you really want to help him out, tell him they are pretty old, but you'll do him a favor by giving him TWICE the amount they were when they were new!!
Seriously, it's nice he has a friend to help him out, plus you get to play with some cool guns!
I don't suppose he has any old decrepit wheel guns he'd like to get rid of??

 

[jeffrefrig]

I'm kind of curious about that electrolysis cleaning. That may give me something to read about later.

 

[walnutred]

If you really want to help him out, tell him they are pretty old, but you'll do him a favor by giving him TWICE the amount they were when they were new!!
Seriously, it's nice he has a friend to help him out, plus you get to play with some cool guns!
I don't suppose he has any old decrepit wheel guns he'd like to get rid of??

When he first showed the 1911s to me he felt they had no value. I told them if he was convinced of that I'd give him $500 each, but know I was going to clean them up and find new homes for the pistols. I did conserve a Webley Mk VI for him and bought a rough looking Mk IV from the lot. However so far no real interesting wheel guns have emerged.