Gas prices...

coltle6920 said:
I'm done here.
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Of course you are "done" as I knew you would be...

Just so can understand and I'll simplify this for you.

When gasoline or any petroleum distillate "leaves the refinery" it goes into huge holding tanks...

The refined products go to bulk tanks and then they are distributed via tanker trucks for gasoline stations via tankers. At that point all fuel products are identical except for octane and ethanol content, which they are separated by baffled tankers.

There is no Chef Boyardee that makes a few boutique gallons here or there somehow different than other product None....Never.

From there, the gasoline is loaded into tanker trucks at Dundalk and other similar tank farms and distributed to stations... It is then sold under a brand...Whatever "brand" that pays the most that morning at spot comex price...In other words, all gasoline will be purchased, loaded and delivered day after day the same way...Low spot bid via computer bid and when settled, that's where all tankers load.

All of these fuels will all meet federal and state octane/ethanol/sulphur/detergent standards unless they risk fines, but they are still always identical...

Have a good one and I am glad you now understand branding of both gasoline and all petroleum products specifically.
 
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We're up 40 to 60 cents a gallon from a low of $3.09 here in my corner of Vermont. The sudden price hike coincided nicely with Iran's missile and drone launch a few weeks back.
 
MelvinWalker said:
Of course you are "done" as I knew you would be...

Just so can understand and I'll simplify this for you.

When gasoline or any petroleum distillate "leaves the refinery" it goes into huge holding tanks...

The refined products go to bulk tanks and then they are distributed via tanker trucks for gasoline stations via tankers. At that point all fuel products are identical except for octane and ethanol content, which they are separated by baffled tankers.

There is no Chef Boyardee that makes a few boutique gallons here or there somehow different than other product None....Never.

From there, the gasoline is loaded into tanker trucks at Dundalk and other similar tank farms and distributed to stations... It is then sold under a brand...Whatever "brand" that pays the most that morning at spot comex price...In other words, all gasoline will be purchased, loaded and delivered day after day the same way...Low spot bid via computer bid and when settled, that's where all tankers load.

All of these fuels will all meet federal and state octane/ethanol/sulphur/detergent standards unless they risk fines, but they are still always identical...

Have a good one and I am glad you now understand branding of both gasoline and all petroleum products specifically.
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There are local differences though.

Some places have air quality regulations that require special blends (and therefor more expensive). Then there is summer and winter blends.

A few years back some gas stations ran dry, I forget why. Shortages of their local blend? There were no shortages here.

Here in MN, the E10 is only 91 octane. I have seen 92 in very few places. Everyplace else I have ever been E10 is 93. No idea why, I'm not aware of any local regulation that requires it. None of the locals know why either.
 
johngalt said:
There are local differences though.

Some places have air quality regulations that require special blends (and therefor more expensive). Then there is summer and winter blends.

A few years back some gas stations ran dry, I forget why. Shortages of their local blend? There were no shortages here.

Here in MN, the E10 is only 91 octane. I have seen 92 in very few places. Everyplace else I have ever been E10 is 93. No idea why, I'm not aware of any local regulation that requires it. None of the locals know why either.
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That happened here a couple of years back. There was a glitch in the summer/winter switch IIRC.

We only get 91 octane as our "Premium" here. How much of that is caused by the way the California refineries are run or regulated I cannot say. Either way, in Southern NV we are stuck with what they send up the pipe.
 
johngalt said:
There are local differences though.

Some places have air quality regulations that require special blends (and therefor more expensive). Then there is summer and winter blends.

A few years back some gas stations ran dry, I forget why. Shortages of their local blend? There were no shortages here.

Here in MN, the E10 is only 91 octane. I have seen 92 in very few places. Everyplace else I have ever been E10 is 93. No idea why, I'm not aware of any local regulation that requires it. None of the locals know why either.
Click to expand...

Correct! As to the local blend, I remember there was a blend difference for the seasons because my dad said all wholesalers would intentionally start running tank inventories down when seasons were changing to accomodate for the new season's blend. I would say that places like where I live now in Florida, the blend never changes because the weather is fairly constant.

As to octane differences I have seen the same thing...In some areas premium is 93 and some it's 91....I have seen 87,91 and 93 all at the same pump in southern Georgia.
 
Some states you will see that regular is 85.5 octane and others 87 octane. That is usually due to altitude, but most modern engines with a ECM can adjust to what you feed them.

A refinery or bunk storage tanker loading rack will load out a whole variety of gasoline and even meter out a brands specific additives. Going to an Exxon station DOES NOT mean the gas came from an Exxon refinery. It means it is Exxon spec. 87 octane gasoline is not all the same either. 87 octane means it is blended to be 87 octane EQUIVALENT. It could have more high octane "blended" to bring poor quality fuel up to that level or just be be mid grade. They could do this by mixing in a little 100 octane or a lot of 92 octane. An actual octane (C8H18) is extremely stable and difficult to detonate (make you engine knock) a heptane (C7H16) is unstable and easy to detonate but add enough octane to heptane and you have 87 octane. All actual octanes are not the same either. Just because a molecule is made up of 8 carbons and some hydrogen does not mean it will burn the same. IF the carbons are in a string with the hydrogens bonded on the sides it will burn different than 8 carbons cross bonded as clump with the hydrogen on the outside. That is one of the reasons why refineries now have reformers.

Most high octane fuel for either high performance engines or blending now comes from alky units that take iso butane and iso propane blended together with either pure sulfuric acid or hydrofluoric acid to form high octane.

Here is another interesting fact concerning gasoline prices.
Last year US oil producers recovered more barrels of oil than at any time prior to 2020. In fact 5% more that the previous records set during 2019. Plus consumption is down 2%. Petroleum company profits however are up to 332,874 million in 2022 from 173,475 million in 2019 a 191% revenue increase. The previous record high was in 2014 at 218,790 million

Hey, gas prices doubled and oil company revenues did the same. Amazing huh.

PS the most recent record low petroleum revenues was in 2016 at 100,651 million and 112,118 in the 2020 covid period
 
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Mike said:
For REAL PAZZAS some people hee buy Aviation Fuel from the airport.......Bout $5 a gal BUT.........Makes yer pony want to kick up his hind legs and snort.
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heck When I flew a fair amount I used aviation gas when I had to. Mostly used regular car gas. Even high test was cheaper than Avgas. Understand...I lived at an elevation of 60 feet. I didn't fly higher than 5000 ft so I didn't have to worry about (vapor lock) the different gas except I couldn't use lead free gas. I used High test in my Cessna 170. Otherwise regular in my Cessna 140, Ercoupe and the TriPacer. They used 80/87 octane avgas anyway
 
coltle6920 said:
Not bad but could be better. :rolleyes: Around my area (NE Denver) prices vary from mid $2.90's up to $3.20.

I stick with Exxon gas because of the known quality of their product. The price at the station near me fluctuates roughly 10cents every couple weeks but usually settles just below $3.

I think the highest price was around $4.49 somewhere back in the 90's. That ticked me off because I was working and drove a lot more. Since I retired a full tank (27gal) gets me just over a month of driving.

As far as you folks in California....Sorry! Can't help you.
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Woah, $4.49 in the 90s sounds rough! Luckily, gas prices around here (Phoenix) haven't hit that high in my memory. Still, filling up my little sedan these days feels a lot more expensive than when I first started driving.

I tend to use GasBuddy to find the cheapest stations around. It's saved me a few bucks here and there, especially when prices are fluctuating. Just a thought in case you're looking to stretch that tank a little further!
 
Premium non alcohol that I run in the Model A is hovering around $5 a gallon, I don't have to run the premium but its the closest non alcohol fuel and the A-Bone loves the stuff. We don't have a state income tax, so all the sin taxes are high, booze and smokes are some of the highest in the country. Everyone is getting soaked by high costs, our homeowners went up $500 in one year. We've had some bad years locally when it comes to fire damage, they are going to get their money one way or another and have to keep all the investors happy including some folk's retirement plans. I just glad I planned for retirement, continually surprised at the number of people that act like it snuck up on them and caught them by surprise. How can anyone blame anyone for some of the cost increases when it is obviously just based on greed, I have to agree with Pogo or whoever it was that said "I have met the enemy and he is us."
 
MelvinWalker said:
Correct! As to the local blend, I remember there was a blend difference for the seasons because my dad said all wholesalers would intentionally start running tank inventories down when seasons were changing to accomodate for the new season's blend. I would say that places like where I live now in Florida, the blend never changes because the weather is fairly constant.

As to octane differences I have seen the same thing...In some areas premium is 93 and some it's 91....I have seen 87,91 and 93 all at the same pump in southern Georgia.
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I should have been a little more specific, I was referring to the premium.

Most places I've lived, the E10 grades were 87, 89, and 93. E0 is 91.

Here in the Midwestern capital of fruits and nuts, the E10 grades are 87 and 91. E15 is 88 (there is no mid-grade E10), and E0 is also 91. I've seen E85 very infrequently, I don't remember its rating.

Since ethanol slightly increases the octane, and it's lower than other places, I suspect here in MN they use lower grade gas as a base for their ethanol.
 
I've got a friend in California I keep in touch with by texting. I love busting his chops about various things. Of course the price of gas and the pending 50¢ additional tax per gallon to combat emissions topped the list.

This was his latest reply...
 

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LVSteve said:
Speaking of California and gas prices, some think that a California bill regarding oil company profits and gouging could really hose the market in the SW. If it does, our state AG needs to file suit under the interstate commerce provisions.
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It should say "alleged" gouging but when did the Left ever admit that before going after someone.

Starting in 2025 (?) California wants to impose an additional 50¢ tax per gal of gas as part of their plan to finance reducing emissions. I'm thinking the Governor knows the people wont stand for it so he would basically get the oil companies to cover the cost of the new tax by lowering their profits/costs.

Make sense??
 
coltle6920 said:
It should say "alleged" gouging but when did the Left ever admit that before going after someone.

Starting in 2025 (?) California wants to impose an additional 50¢ tax per gal of gas as part of their plan to finance reducing emissions. I'm thinking the Governor knows the people wont stand for it so he would basically get the oil companies to cover the cost of the new tax by lowering their profits/costs.

Make sense??
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LOL!! I think the phrase you are looking for is "Fat Chance".
 
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